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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that God doesn't exist and is a manmade concept

569 replies

Perimama · 07/12/2023 01:42

As it is taboo to talk religion politics with people socially, I often wonder whether many people think like me. As a species we have dismissed all the other "Gods" ie Greek gods etc. What makes the Christian God any different? I wasn't born into a religious household although I was baptized Christian. The whole concept seems so unbelievable to me.

OP posts:
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Stephisaur · 07/12/2023 09:20

TheAlchemistElixa · 07/12/2023 09:14

But those aren’t Christian principles. Hindus are kind and compassionate and honest. As are Muslims. As are pagans. And…wait for it…atheists!

My moral compass doesn’t come from any form of religious belief or education from a church. It comes from social norms, wider social values from the country and culture I’ve grown up in, and my own personal shaping of it.

Christians do not have the monopoly on the “good” things of being a “good” human. They just like to include these universal moral traits on their teachings - the same as billions of other no - Christians and non-believers. So please don’t use the term Christian values.

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Hence the use of quotation marks around the word "Christian" - obviously I know that no religion has a monopoly on "good" or "bad" values. Simply that those the school teach are referred back to the bible in this case. Be kind because Jesus was kind etc.

XRAYTHIS · 07/12/2023 09:21

Imagine that no one worshipped any God's, whatever name is used and whatever faith.

Imagine if this is it and we all do our best to make the one life since no eternal life the best for everyone.

anotherside · 07/12/2023 09:22

It can’t be proven either way

True. But surely the logical step is therefore agnosticism as we don’t know which God, if any of the 1000s that exist in human societies, is real. Or if any of them are real. Picking one at random and then building your whole moral code etc around God X’s teachings is illogical however you look at it.

ABCXYZ17 · 07/12/2023 09:22

boobot1 · 07/12/2023 07:37

Christianity was started by St Paul. Jesus was Jewish, he wouldn't of recognised what we call Christianity, especially as it has evolved over the centuries. Religion to me, was simply the first control mechanisim we've invented may others since.

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I know Jesus was Jewish, he did claim to be the son of God and did start a cult following.

TheBeautifulMoors · 07/12/2023 09:23

XRAYTHIS · 07/12/2023 09:21

Imagine that no one worshipped any God's, whatever name is used and whatever faith.

Imagine if this is it and we all do our best to make the one life since no eternal life the best for everyone.

What stops anyone from doing that now?
Many are doing just that, aren’t they?
What stops those who are not doing that?

Fieldofbrokenpromises · 07/12/2023 09:23

WandaWonder · 07/12/2023 01:56

It cant be proven either way

As Steven Fry observed, children with cancer is good enough proof for me that there is no God.

YireosDodeAver · 07/12/2023 09:24

TheAlchemistElixa · 07/12/2023 09:02

I think you have a very limited understanding of all religions of you think that the ancient civilisations believed in a single divine entity but just had lots of other Gods for…well, what?!

As for your assertions about unknowable facts and equating that with God’s existence “not being provable either way”…well it seems you also have a limited understanding of reasoning, critical thinking and science, too.

it’s perfectly fine that you believe in a single divine (presumably Christian) God, that’s your choice and none of my business. But it is a bit silly to spout facts like yours above when you have no concept of which you speak.

Edited
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It's quite clear from each of these paragraphs independently that you either didn't read or didn't understand my post, and answered a strawman argument based on your own concept of what religious people believe, but you think I'm the one with limited understanding?

😂

Fortunately I have no need to convince you of anything. You are at liberty to believe what you will.

Lambiriyani · 07/12/2023 09:25

I can't sleep at night sometimes thinking that I'm going to go to hell for not being in the correct religion.

Mirrormeback · 07/12/2023 09:26

Of course it's a man made concept

OpenLanes · 07/12/2023 09:27

I think that's commonly known now isn't it?
Unless people are told its true from a very young age they're unlikely to believe as there is no evidence of it being reality.
A few more generations and hopefully all religion will be a thing of the past.

Mirrormeback · 07/12/2023 09:27

Without man having the ability to be able to think there would be no concept of God

Burntoutbetty · 07/12/2023 09:27

HavfrueDenizKisi · 07/12/2023 08:32

Also PP mentioned Jesus being the biggest con man around. Actually I say that Mary was the best player here as she got pregnant out of wedlock and passed it off as an immaculate conception. Go girl!

The phrase 'immaculate conception' is Roman Catholic dogma which refers to Mary's conception, not Jesus'.

cheezncrackers · 07/12/2023 09:27

It's a fascinating subject to debate OP and while it may not be easy to bring up with friends, there are whole areas of study dedicated to belief and faith and debating their existence.

I used to believe in God when I was younger, but as I got older I lost my faith. It just doesn't make any sense that there is a god with an overall plan who influences things on earth and if there was s/he would have a fucking awful sense of humour!

The Ten Commandments (and other similar religious rules for living a good life) are a decent set of rules to live by, but IMO organised religion is opium for the masses, designed to keep people in their place and satisfied with their lot, however awful it is, because they'll get their rewards in the afterlife. Having a belief like that is comforting too, because death can be scary, so what better than to think that you'll be reunited with your loved ones and you'll be happy? Who wouldn't want to believe that, if they can?

XRAYTHIS · 07/12/2023 09:28

TheBeautifulMoors · 07/12/2023 09:23

What stops anyone from doing that now?
Many are doing just that, aren’t they?
What stops those who are not doing that?

Show quote history

Maybe God gets in the way, just a thought, since repent and be forgiven etc. Many terrorist crimes are supposedly in the name of a god, hence the shouting to God as killing is done.

I wondered if all could live best lives and be kind to each other. Maybe it's the human condition to compete with different people? Who knows.

RomeoandJomeo · 07/12/2023 09:28

TheBeautifulMoors · 07/12/2023 07:03

:Ive just googled and 37% of people in England and Wales identified as having no religion.

Over 40% identified as Christian , 6% as Muslim, 2% other.

I find the Christian/Atheist split very surprising and was expecting the number of atheists to be much higher, from what I come across on the internet and irl. However, I know when I used to work on collecting data, people who were christened as babies but have never had anything to do with Christianity, still identify as Christian so that could explain part of it.

You’re nbu to not believe in God. It’s your choice not to.
So is it mine to believe in Him, through my experiences.
My faith is very important to me but mostly private in my day to day life. I only talk about it with people who I know share my faith.
I never get into a debate on why God exists or doesn’t exist. If someone approaches me irl and asks me about my faith or how I came to it, then I’d happily share it.

I came across a video of proof of God linked to proof that there are no barbers, which I found quite funny.

Claiming a religion is not the same as believing in God though. There are lots of secular Jews and Muslims, and loads of people who describe themselves as CofE don't actually believe the nonsense spouted by the church.

NotEvenThought · 07/12/2023 09:28

I don't believe on god/gods or any type of spiritual being.

Fairylightgirl · 07/12/2023 09:28

I feel like we've gone back in time here 🤣 it's almost 2024 and people still think they are possibly being unreasonable for not believing in a God.

FiftynFooked · 07/12/2023 09:28

I believe in god. I believe there is a higher power and that there are parts of our lives and the universe that remain inexplicable. My faith gives me strength and comfort in my darker days and I am largely happy and at peace with myself.

However I don’t consider myself to be religious. I think you are conflating belief in god with adherence to a religion which I agree with many PPs is the root of many issues. Religion is often toxic and hypocritical and some of the most unpleasant people I have ever met claim to also be religious.

SallyWD · 07/12/2023 09:30

The thing is, I would really love to believe. I've seen the comfort and purpose it brings to so many people close to me. However, I also think why just blindly believe what someone tells you? And there are so many different religions, obviously they can't all be right.
But sometimes I look at the world around me, I see all the beauty in nature (compared to other planets which are just dusty grey rocks) and I can't believe this is all there is and that all this was created by accident. I feel there must be something more. For example, I look at the amazing design of peacocks feathers, and think really? So there was a big bang millions of years ago and that created the most amazing array of beautiful animals, flowers, butterflies etc. The designs are all too intricate and beautiful to be some random mistake created by the big bang! As the saying goes "There's more to heaven and earth than we are aware of" or something!

TheAlchemistElixa · 07/12/2023 09:32

@Stephisaur Sorry, but I don’t think the quotation marks absolve you of making an erroneous distinction about so-called Christian principles. You made a point of making it clear that was part of the reason you liked your child’s Christian-based education.

I’m sure you do believe that other religions and the non-religious have those principles too, only a madwoman wouldn’t, but I also think that you do harbour a deeper belief that the framework of Christianity is a higher and better form of teaching such principles than relying merely on human decency, and that’s where I think you are very wrong.

I also am proud that I hold such principles without fear or favour, without the stick or carrot of either reward by a God for being good, or punishment by a God for being bad. But I also know that pride is frowned upon by Christianity, so maybe I’m not that good after all!

thedementedelf · 07/12/2023 09:38

I don't believe in higher beings/power, I don't believe anyone has power over me, I don't believe that someone so wonderful could make so many utterly shit things happen as a test of inner strength.

Riapia · 07/12/2023 09:40

The Greeks and Romans had many gods.
Now people have one god.
We’re gradually getting nearer the truth.

overwhelmed2023 · 07/12/2023 09:42

Castlerock44 · 07/12/2023 08:17

So the universe just sprang into existence from absolute nothingness, and gave us our very own solar system. The moon and sun in the exact positions to ensure life on earth to be possible. The odds of this happening by chance are impossible.

That takes a far bigger leap of faith to believe than to accept we have a Creator.

Not really, because when those random components happened to align, the right conditions started life

TheAlchemistElixa · 07/12/2023 09:43

@YireosDodeAver I went back to read your original post to see if I might have misunderstood you, or misread you.

But I’m still sure that I didn’t. And you are using a technical philosophical/critical thinking term in not quite the right way here. You can’t just say that someone who refutes what you are saying, or points out errors, is building a straw man argument. It has quite specific (and useful) applications in the realm of critical thinking and debate. This isn’t one of those applications.

but I know we’re at an impasse, and actually I’m sure we’d get on just fine in real life. So let’s just leave it here.

SisterBethina · 07/12/2023 09:49

I can't deny that I felt God's hand over my life and there were experiences and circumstances which led me down this path.

This is one of the things I really struggle to understand. God is an all powerful being and it chooses who to bless and guide? Someone saying they prayed for such and such and got it, not because of luck but because their belief and prayer to god made it happen. What about children praying to the same god for food or not to be abused? Why does god choose Peggy Sue who prayed for a rich husband but not innocent children who are praying for safety?