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Original poster

To think that God doesn't exist and is a manmade concept

569 replies

Perimama · 07/12/2023 01:42

As it is taboo to talk religion politics with people socially, I often wonder whether many people think like me. As a species we have dismissed all the other "Gods" ie Greek gods etc. What makes the Christian God any different? I wasn't born into a religious household although I was baptized Christian. The whole concept seems so unbelievable to me.

OP posts:
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11
WonderingAboutBabies · 07/12/2023 08:50

I will start by saying I am a 100% firm believer in God.

The issue is that 'Religion' is a man-made concept. It has been twisted, distorted, shaped, and molded into what people want it to be - most often people in positions of power. This is where the feeling of oppression, control, force, and intimidation comes from. It also is what causes war in the name of religion.

On the other hand, is FAITH.

Faith is the individual relationship we have with God. This experience varies from person to person. I would say that I have faith in my God, and technically I am a Christian, as this is the category my God falls under. But I would not say that I am religious - I will not adapt my own, personal, intimate relationship with God because someone else tells me to.

My personal belief is that people can absolutely follow a religion, but have no faith, and vice versa.

itsmyp4rty · 07/12/2023 08:51

Oldsu · 07/12/2023 02:05

As Thomas Aquinas once said 'To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.

Edited

Hasn't it been shown that the brains of religious people are different to those who aren't? I think that explains why some people have faith and others don't, it's down to chemicals in the brain.

Lincslady53 · 07/12/2023 08:53

Ricky Gervais put a good argument. He argues that a Christian believes in 1 God. But there are 3,000 ish gods. So the Christian doesn't believe in 2,999 gods, whereas the atheist doesn't believe in just one more god. Religion is a man made concept to help people explain things they didn't understand. Many of the Christian beliefs are reworking older beliefs. Just read the Greek myths. So many have been retold in the Bible. Anyway, here is Ricky.

Ricky Gervais And Stephen Go Head-To-Head On Religion

Ricky Gervais proves a formidable opponent for Stephen in a spirited conversation about belief, religion and atheism.Subscribe To "The Late Show" Channel HER...

https://youtu.be/P5ZOwNK6n9U?si=C6vhadce5f67OiVu

ErrolTheDragon · 07/12/2023 08:53

Castlerock44 · 07/12/2023 08:17

So the universe just sprang into existence from absolute nothingness, and gave us our very own solar system. The moon and sun in the exact positions to ensure life on earth to be possible. The odds of this happening by chance are impossible.

That takes a far bigger leap of faith to believe than to accept we have a Creator.

No, they're not impossible.

Solving what you see as an impossibility by invoking the idea of something even more complicated (a being which can intentionally create this universe) which itself just 'sprang into existence' doesn't make much sense.

MassageForLife · 07/12/2023 08:54

Castlerock44 · 07/12/2023 08:17

So the universe just sprang into existence from absolute nothingness, and gave us our very own solar system. The moon and sun in the exact positions to ensure life on earth to be possible. The odds of this happening by chance are impossible.

That takes a far bigger leap of faith to believe than to accept we have a Creator.

But who created the creator? Surely it's a bigger leap of faith to believe that a powerful entity that could create all this came from nothing?

woopdedoodle · 07/12/2023 08:56

auberginefortea · 07/12/2023 02:19

Wow OP, I've not come across that idea before - I simply assumed everyone believed in God. Does this idea have a name?

Thank you for making me laugh this morning.

Lincslady53 · 07/12/2023 09:00

Example
Moses crossing the Red Sea. Could be a mistranslation of the Reed Sea. Marshland between Egypt and Israel near to the Med, by the Nile Delta.Santorini volcano exploded, destroying the Minoan civilisation on Crete. We all saw the effects of the Tsunami in 2004, when the sea receded then came rushing back in with devastating consequences. It is not hard to understand that such a huge eruption would cause similar effects around the Med. We know from our science what caused it. But in the time of Moses, all they had to explain the phenomenon was 'It was God'.

TheAlchemistElixa · 07/12/2023 09:02

YireosDodeAver · 07/12/2023 06:34

You aren't being 'unreasonable' as such, in fact you are using 'reason' fine. But you have to admit within that structural reasoning that if God exists (very much not provable either way so not a concept that can be addressed via reason) then your belief or lack of belief is totally irrelevant to that fact. You are entirely at liberty to ignore religion and religious teachings of course. There are many unknowable facts in the universe. The existence of God is one of them. Your belief or otherwise has no bearing on reality for any of them.

FWIW if the Divine does exist then I don't think there's a set of "old" gods that don't exist and one specific religion that has it "right". It would be more that there's always been a single divine entity and the Greeks and the Egyptians and the Aztecs had their culturally-specific ways of understanding that, and we have ours, and I am sure that future generations in 3000 years will have a different understanding again but it wouldn't be different gods, or god changing, just human culture evolving.

I think you have a very limited understanding of all religions of you think that the ancient civilisations believed in a single divine entity but just had lots of other Gods for…well, what?!

As for your assertions about unknowable facts and equating that with God’s existence “not being provable either way”…well it seems you also have a limited understanding of reasoning, critical thinking and science, too.

it’s perfectly fine that you believe in a single divine (presumably Christian) God, that’s your choice and none of my business. But it is a bit silly to spout facts like yours above when you have no concept of which you speak.

CurlewKate · 07/12/2023 09:04

@Cailleachian So the universe just sprang into existence from absolute nothingness, and gave us our very own solar system. The moon and sun in the exact positions to ensure life on earth to be possible. The odds of this happening by chance are impossible"

  1. Big Bang
  2. Life evolved to fit the universe. If the moon and sun were in different places, life would be different too.
user14699084785 · 07/12/2023 09:05

WonderingAboutBabies · 07/12/2023 08:50

I will start by saying I am a 100% firm believer in God.

The issue is that 'Religion' is a man-made concept. It has been twisted, distorted, shaped, and molded into what people want it to be - most often people in positions of power. This is where the feeling of oppression, control, force, and intimidation comes from. It also is what causes war in the name of religion.

On the other hand, is FAITH.

Faith is the individual relationship we have with God. This experience varies from person to person. I would say that I have faith in my God, and technically I am a Christian, as this is the category my God falls under. But I would not say that I am religious - I will not adapt my own, personal, intimate relationship with God because someone else tells me to.

My personal belief is that people can absolutely follow a religion, but have no faith, and vice versa.

My nearly 100 year old relative used to take great delight in telling the visiting vicar that they believed in God, but not the church!

IncompleteSenten · 07/12/2023 09:05

Castlerock44 · 07/12/2023 08:17

So the universe just sprang into existence from absolute nothingness, and gave us our very own solar system. The moon and sun in the exact positions to ensure life on earth to be possible. The odds of this happening by chance are impossible.

That takes a far bigger leap of faith to believe than to accept we have a Creator.

I often hear that argument but it has one flaw in it.

Using that exact reasoning, it must therefore be impossible that a being capable of creating a entire universe could simply just 'be'.

Which means god was created.

By an entity capable of creating an entity capable of creating a universe.

So shouldn't we worship god's creator? A being that can create a god!

But... Who created a being capable of creating a being capable of creating a universe?

And on and on and on we go. It really isn't the mic drop that people use use it think it is.

TheAlchemistElixa · 07/12/2023 09:05

x2boys · 07/12/2023 08:02

I'm agnostic but in biblical times people had much shorter life times you can't really compare current times and values .

Show quote history

Did you miss the bit about a magical omnipresent invisible being impregnating a virgin with a demi-god?! Those fantastical parts have absolutely nothing to do with cultural and social differences across the ages! 🤣🤣

pinkspeakers · 07/12/2023 09:06

It's never really occurred to me to think anything different. I barely know anyone who isn't an atheist. I'm also extremely surprised when I come across someone who believes in God!

IncompleteSenten · 07/12/2023 09:06

I think at the core of all religion is simple human fear of death. Fear of the unknown.

Rouleur · 07/12/2023 09:08

Where are you that it is taboo to talk about religion or politics? I'm guessing not in the UK?

Mumof2teens79 · 07/12/2023 09:08

Erm...as a species we have not collectively dismissed ALL other gods except the Christian God.....and that one isn’t even uniquely Christian.
There is nothing special about that one, it's not that we dismissed all others and left this one, in 2000yrs we may have hundreds more

Ploctopus · 07/12/2023 09:08

jonesysy · 07/12/2023 02:21

Possibly the most important point in history was 1859 when our species realised where we had come from via evolution by natural selction. At that point we should have cast off all religions declaring an Adam and Eve or a creator that put animals here for our benefit

This is such a weirdly Christianity-centred view. There are a huge number of religions in the world, with a massive variety of creation myths. It’s not like everyone was bumbling along believing god created the world in 7 days and put Adam and Eve in charge of the animals prior to 1859.

WorldCuppa · 07/12/2023 09:10

You know there’s a difference between God and religion right?

DdraigGoch · 07/12/2023 09:11

Catsmere · 07/12/2023 04:04

Now I'm wondering if he barks or purrs!

(My deities purr. Or, at the moment, snore.)

Show quote history

He purrs of course. A dog would never gain such a heightened sense of their own self-importance.

Dogs: This person feeds me, waters me, pets me. They must be God.

Cats: This person feeds me, waters me, pets me. I must be God.

TheAlchemistElixa · 07/12/2023 09:14

Stephisaur · 07/12/2023 08:49

I believe in a God, not necessarily the God from the bible though. I would say I'm quite spiritual - I like to believe in an afterlife, but not necessarily heaven/hell in the traditional sense.

DH is an atheist.

DS goes to a CofE school (only because it is our catchment school). I have enjoyed hearing him learn about God, and I like that the school are teaching him "Christian" principles such as kindness, compassion and honesty.

It's nice to believe in something bigger than yourself sometimes.

But those aren’t Christian principles. Hindus are kind and compassionate and honest. As are Muslims. As are pagans. And…wait for it…atheists!

My moral compass doesn’t come from any form of religious belief or education from a church. It comes from social norms, wider social values from the country and culture I’ve grown up in, and my own personal shaping of it.

Christians do not have the monopoly on the “good” things of being a “good” human. They just like to include these universal moral traits on their teachings - the same as billions of other no - Christians and non-believers. So please don’t use the term Christian values.

Soozikinzii · 07/12/2023 09:15

I agree with you 100% .Think of all the trouble caused by religion. The Unitarian Universalists are a lovely group that believe that everyone is on their own spiritual path so all religious views and atheist are accepted . Charles Dickens, Beatrix Potter and 5 American presidents were Unitarians so its such a shame it seems to have fallen out of favour .

MissingMoominMamma · 07/12/2023 09:17

Oldsu · 07/12/2023 02:05

As Thomas Aquinas once said 'To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.

Edited

I like this. I have faith, but I’m not religious at all.

Catsmere · 07/12/2023 09:17

DdraigGoch · 07/12/2023 09:11

He purrs of course. A dog would never gain such a heightened sense of their own self-importance.

Dogs: This person feeds me, waters me, pets me. They must be God.

Cats: This person feeds me, waters me, pets me. I must be God.

Show quote history

I'd forgotten that great quote! 😹😹😹

ETA Terry Pratchett's great line - "In ancient times cats were worshipped as gods. They have not forgotten this."

therealcookiemonster · 07/12/2023 09:18

Perimama · 07/12/2023 02:37

ok Captain sarky. I don't tend to talk about it with people that is why it is good to chat about it on here. According to polls atheists/agnostics are a small minority, I'm just wondering if these polls really reflect people's beliefs accurately or do people just say they are Christian etc if that is what their family background it without putting much thought into it. Does a large majority of people truly believe 100%. I would've thought most people have doubts, but maybe not..

Show quote history

I think most people don't really think about it too deeply because it can be quite intimidating/true philosophical enquiry is not really something that is taught to children/young people. this includes religious people. and if you go round asking if people "truly believe", I would say those numbers are very small. I think the vast majority of religious people, don't "truly believe". however, people are very keen to warp ideologies to suit their agendas. in the absence of religion, we have people developing other ideologies to perform similar roles in society I.e. chastising people who don't appear to adhere to that ideology, gaining an upper hand based on values based on that ideology etc. etc. TRA is an example.

TheHouseElf · 07/12/2023 09:19

Brought up as a Roman Catholic and of course as a child believed in God as it was what I'd been taught to do. As a grew older I became more agnostic, then moving to being full atheist. However rather like the letters in seaside rock, throughout my bones there still lies Catholicism and that runs through me, and in the past few years I've done a 180.

I believe there is a God, a Creator. A benevolent entity who allows us the freewill to believe, or not, to live as we choose, but loves us still. I believe we a spiritual beings, a soul, existing here on earth in order to experience and learn.