To think that God doesn't exist and is a manmade concept

[Perimama]

As it is taboo to talk religion politics with people socially, I often wonder whether many people think like me. As a species we have dismissed all the other "Gods" ie Greek gods etc. What makes the Christian God any different? I wasn't born into a religious household although I was baptized Christian. The whole concept seems so unbelievable to me.

This is the definition of a cult:

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

cult
/kʌlt/

noun

1. 1.
2. a system of religious veneration and devotion directed towards a particular figure or object.
3. "the cult of St Olaf"

You have made a very interesting point. There is an idea that we should all be upholding our religious communities churches etc even if we are atheist because we have nothing else and that atheism does not offer anything to those without faith in terms of life markers like baptism and funerals, marriages etc. No structure to the week, no moral code, no marking the seasons.

If you would have no moral code witnout religion, run around murdering and raping as you please then that's quite disturbing. But most of us aren't psychopaths.

What i wrote wasn't hateful in the slightest. Please report if it is. We're having a really good discussion cant we do that without it turning into rowing nonsense, so often discussion on mumsnet is derailed by someone desperate for a good row.

There is nothing extraordinary in saying you don't belief in something that has not been proven to exist.

Is it extraordinary to say that you don't believe in fairies or Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny??

No, i would stand by that and say Atheism doesn't offer a moral code in the same way religions do. I think atheists can be moral but that comes from religion, same way you can be married and not religious. Atheists can be moral and have morality and their moral code is from religion. There is no history or foundation that i know of a purely atheists moral code. each atheists i assume has their own which is informed i believe by religion. I hope that makes sense.

There is a compelling argument for the existence of God. The Easter Bunny isn't the same as God. Not in reality or in spirituality, history etc You are equating all make believe with God.

@TriOptimim
"My criticism of atheism is that it offers not much at all and is very dull and a sort of nothingness which doesn't cater for our need for ritual and spirituality, shared memory and basically anything very interesting."

This is a very odd position. Music, art, comedy, literature, embroidery, animals, love, family, landscape, wild swimming, birthday parties,cooking, parties, gardening, exploring, babies, jewellery making, dancing, TV, sex, dog walking, jam making, architecture, history, science.....a very short list of things that are joyful and fun and uplifting and are not dependent on faith....

@eardefender "There is a compelling argument for the existence of God." There really isn't. But obviously faith is not provable. There is evidence that he doesn't....

Exactly, well sort of. I do believe in God but I can't make sense of everything. I just feel it's interesting that there is definitely a man made preconceived notion that God HAS to be good. Where does this come from and more importantly why does almost everyone (whether they believe in God or not) think that God should automatically be good? - What is good and why do we have a need for it? Where does THAT come from? If you see what I mean.

Atheists are not making an extraordinary claim.

How that appears to people with faith is wholly immaterial. I understand the faith mindset perfectly well, but the fact remains, its people making a claim something exists in spite of there being no qualifying evidence who are ignoring all convention and common sense, hence why their claim is extraordinary.

I ask again, if belief in god absent of evidence is perfectly mundane, and not in any way extraordinary, what else do people with faith accept as truth despite the absence of any evidence whatsoever? The tooth fairy as literal truth? Santa Claus as literal truth?

I'm sorry to reduce this to "imaginary friends", but that really is how ridiculous the notion that scepticism due to zero evidence being the extraordinary position is, when your alternative is belief despite zero evidence.

And no, I am not suggesting people with faith are stupid, or silly, or that they believe the tooth fairy and Santa Claus must exist, but it's an example to show that if your burden of proof is so low as to be non-existent and you will still accept the existence of something, then if you apply that universally the absurdity of it soon becomes apparent, hence why it is "extraordinary" to do it even once.

Man created God in his own image. He did this to reconcile the fear, delight and confusion of his own existence and that of the world around him. If God created us and has a plan there is no need to be afraid or question anything. It is interesting to note the similarities in world religions, not just the Abrahamic faiths which share the same origins. For example, the great flood is recounted by the Cherokee and other Native American tribes. The pre-Christian West Africans believed the first humans were fashioned out of clay. Pandora's Box represents forbidden knowledge which brought all the evils of mankind to play.

"Nrft" indeed,@ReadtheReviews :"OP, nothing is provable one way or the other."

... Yesterday 13:56:
"For those (and there are some) who think we have no proof either way, here is a sketch of a proof ..."

Yes: provable.

Overall, it's interesting how the thread is - as many religious arguments tend to, online as well as irl - descending to ignorant name-calling on both sides. 'Twas ever thus, I suppose.

Resile from that a little? Those (on both sides) who want to think about whether a non-believer can properly be moral: check out the so-called 'Euthyphro dilemma'. ...

... Taking the cue from Plato's dialogue Euthyphro, Gottfried Leibniz (who invented differential calculus as well as featuring as the character 'Dr Pangloss' in Voltaire's Candide), for example, asked whether the good and just "is good and just because God wills it or whether God wills it because it is good and just".

Hmm? Yes, it's all been done before, really. But even if you have something you think might be new, perhaps you might inform yourself of some of what has already been said?

(Oh, and why is that a dilemma, specifically? And how might it bear on the atheist's moral compass or lack thereof?)

What evidence is there that God doesn't exist?
When i say 'compelling argument', that is not the same as proof. You have misunderstood this.

I think this was my quote not trioptimum's. You misunderstand, i mean in terms of religion, which is very different from every day activities, which are not religion. This thread is concerned with religion and God etc Atheism is a belief. Cooking is not.

It's no less hateful than saying religions are cults.

It's all a bit "one rule for me".

My morality does not come from religion, thanks very much.

@eardefender " You misunderstand, i mean in terms of religion, which is very different from every day activities, which are not religion."

Ah. I think it was you saying "basically anything very interesting" that confused me. Also "very dull and a sort of nothingness."

As far as proof goes-obviously I can't prove that God doesn't exist any more than you can prove he does. But on a purely empirical basis, you would have thought that for the type of interventionist, prayer answering, miracle working God Christians tend to believe, there would have been some evidence of him intervening, answering prayers or working miracles at some point. And there just isn't.

Which god?

There are supposedly many.

'Burden of proof', 'non-existent', 'zero evidence'.
I get this argument i really do, but i don't agree with it. I think there is evidence that exists and for some this satisfies their burden of proof.
For me it is that we have an origin of fully formed life and a genetic code that thus far we cant explain apart from God creating this.
We know the universe began, it had a beginning, so who did this. Did God create this?
There is a bunch of other stuff that clever people put out there as proof or at least evidence of the existence of God/a creator.
I also think it is significant that the Torah and Bible were written by people. They may not be proof but they are compelling written evidence about God from many different sources. The bible also deals with and comments on belief in God. Can we dismiss written historical texts completely, i don't think so.
The fact is people feel faith, have faith and feel the presence of God. That is evidence for the existence of God, not proof, but evidence yes.

If there is a god, he/she/they have apparently sat on a big cloud and watched every single sexual assault - on children, women, everyone else …
and don’t give me that free will bullshit.

This isn't true. That's why there are saints and holy sites, There are so many miracles, payers answered etc etc. There is huge evidence in terms of people reporting and believing in such things so evidence yes, proof, that's a matter of opinion, belief, faith i suppose.

I think this is the main argument against religion and the reason a lot of people lose their faith and cannot understand God and faith etc. So much is said and written about this point it s big part of theology.

@eardefender "There are so many miracles, payers answered etc etc." As far as I am aware, none that stand scrutiny. I am obviously ready to be proved wrong.

if were going to start discussing good and evil then were 'gonna need a bigger boat'.

How on earth could you know this? seriously? do you have time to scrutinize them all? really ?