To rant about this

[Starrystarryshite]

(Yes I know this won’t apply to all, it’s open rant but it’s one I desperately need to have for my own sanity)

Im a nanny. In my child related career I have been a teaching assistant, a SEN 1-2-1, an Early years educator and a nanny. I am truly at the end of my tether with the newest generation of children. Since covid I have encountered some of the worst behaviour, rudeness and complete lack of boundaries and what’s acceptable when it comes to adults outside of their families.

Gentle parenting seems to have been misconstrued as an absence of parenting. Parents trying to justify kids behaviour with this big focus on their feelings. I’m sick of hearing ‘they’re tired, they’ve had a long day, they had a busy weekend’ to justify their children hitting me, shouting, throwing tantrums. Boundaries are not put in place and there’s now many children who cannot handle any negative emotion because every bad bit of behaviour is explained away with excuses on ‘big feelings’.

Im noticing more children incapable of imaginative play because working parents have guilt and overcompensate so much with toys that children are overwhelmed and don’t even know how to play properly without waiting for the next shiny new thing.

Im exhausted going to work every day desperately trying to explain boundaries, routines to these children and their families to have the parents undo all my work because not even natural consequences are a thing in their households.

’gentle parenting’ and ‘covid babies and children’ are making me want to end a 15 year long career with children because all I am experiencing family after family is children who cannot handle ANY emotion and don’t have any independence and the worst thing Is it’s the parents who are causing it!!

Of course children should be forced to do things they don't want.

I took my two young DDs to the dentist the other day, they didn't like it but it was happening. I get to decide because they don't understand the situation and why it's important.

Adults do things they don't want to all the time. I took my 4 year old to the supermarket at the weekend - neither of us particularly wanted to go, but we needed to. Both of us were doing something we didn't want. And because I'm the adult, you could say she was forced I suppose. She was also "forced" to walk nicely in the busy shop so she didn't get in anyone's way.

DD1 is in reception and goes in very happily, but if she ever didn't want to, she'd still have to unless ill (obviously there'd be some sense of judging the situation here, she normally goes in very happily so if one day she was hysterical at the thought, I'd look into why).

All of that is "forcing a child to do something they don't want" but none of it is unreasonable or coercive.

Part if the issue is in some families children are not taught they are part of a wider group and sometimes (often) their needs and wants are not always primary.

Mr Mlnkey had a great one a few years ago. He ran the bar at a local pub. One afternoon a man and his young son came in and ordered two drinks and then asked for ice cream for his son. Mr Monkey said the kitchen was closed but would reopen at 6pm when he could order desert. The man had the gall to say to Mr Monkey, in full earshot of his son "can you go and get some, I promised little Jonnie he could have ice cream if he came with me and he will be terribly upset if he doesn't get some".

As the man got more and more annoyed and little Jonnie wailed with disappointment, Mr Monkey calmly observed it was a good lesson in not making promises you can't keep.

I make her aware of the consequences i.e. detention if homework isn't done, no lift if she isn't ready by X time,

What consequences? Surely she wouldn’t have to stay in detention if she didn’t want to? Or just not go to school if she didn’t want to go without a lift?

Do you have other children that you’ve parented the same? Because it sounds like you have one compliant, very sensible dd. I imagine it would be very easy to gently Parent in that scenario!

I had a friend who felt that her children should find their own boundaries and that I was harsh by having rules that I expected the DC to follow.

I stopped meeting up with her when her DS was hitting my DS and her response was 'your DS should hit him back and then he will understand'. Err no! Rules in this house are no hitting. Not my DS place to set boundaries for your kids!

I do think we should stop blaming working parents though - the worst cases of 'gentle parenting' I've seen are by SAHM. I have always worked FT. My kids have always had boundaries. They know the boundaries and the consequences of breaking them. I often get told by other parents how respectful and polite they are. Not perfect by any means and tend to display their worst behaviour at home. My DC have always known that they will be my priority and felt loved without having constantly having to be bought things/given their own way.

One of the most said things in this house is that you have a choice. You might not like the choice (do x or consequence is y) but you have a choice.

Kids need routine, rules and boundaries. This is how they learn to become functioning adults. We all have to do things we don't want to or would rather not but that's life.

My grandson just turned 4. His favourite saying currently is, “Oh but I WANT it/to”. To which the answer is “I know you do, sweetie, but right now (something else)”. And then holding the line. Until the next thing he WANTS or NEEDS. It’s a phase, he’s just testing whether no once might sometimes be yes if asked enough times, and he’s very persistent. But ultimately he’s learning no means no.

Yep, you don't build resilience sitting at home on screens, being pandered too. You don't get manners that way either.
I went to an extended family party and every single child in the room except mine was on a device, phone/ tablet/ console.

It's revolting. You can do a journey without screens, you attend a party - even a boring adult one. My kids were annoyed because I wouldn't let them do that, but honestly I think it's shoddy manners. Boredom is healthy. Respecting your hosts is important.

Haha yes exactly. That's it. Sometimes we all put up and shut up in this life and that is healthy and okay. It's not abuse, it's recognising how to behave in certain situations. Life shouldn't be curated around children's permanently pleasure and opinions.

You might as an adult host your in laws when you'd rather not, feed your neighbours cat when they're in hospital unexpectedly, eat vegetables if you're not into them but know they're good for you - sometimes you just have to crack on in this life and the idea that the world should be entirely about your own needs and pleasures is gross.

I didn't want to get out of bed this morning, but I did because I had to.

Children feel safer with boundaries, not control. Some choice and control is healthy but as someone who works with kids I worry for my own as people seem to be creating narcissists as far as I can see.

People KNOW what they’re doing isn’t best practice. I think they’re so tired physically or mentally that they take the path of least resistance and hope for the best.

This is such a cop out. Like I said, I’m a nanny. I’m the one dealing with the kids and putting in the work. The parents are spending about 2 hours per day with them. If they are undoing all of my hard work in just those 2 hours then that is their own fault. They can hear what I implement. They hear that their children now say “pardon” and not “what?” They hear that I do not hand something to the child until there’s a please and thank you. They hear that after 20-30 seconds of whinging if you stick with your expectations, the children comply. So I will not accept a lack of parenting as an excuse because they cannot stand to work at their parenting for less than a minute.

Jaysus, retrain.

Defo children need strong boundaries and discipline when young, otherwise they won't grow up to be functional adults.

All mammals can be observed to teach their young boundaries and punish them for overstepping.

Children want and need and welcome knowing where the boundaries are.

Otherwise, they end up chaotic and helpless, like some of the teenagers on the 'Moronic Teenagers' thread in AIBU today: calling 999 because their parents won't let them stay overnight with their boyfriends, or sitting in the dark for 2 hours because Alexa didn't automatically turn the lights on, or thinking you can get ill from eating 'raw toast' (yes, these are, sadly, allegedly real life examples).

Get out and retrain if you can, for your own sake. I left teaching in HE because I was expected to parent students, who didn't realise their education was their responsibility. It did wonders for my mental health.

Definitely this.

None of this has anything to do with gentle parenting.

This is an absence of parenting which they are pretending is something else. It’s very unfair to label it thus.

My 4 year old behaves impeccably 99% of the time. We have very high expectations for behaviour. On the rare occasions she doesn’t, there are consequences. We don’t scream and shout but we also don’t ignore it.

I see the poor behaviour you are talking about though, but it’s shitty parenting nothing else.

I work in HE and the recent cohorts of students are the most pathetic creatures you have ever seen.

Whiny, incapable, entitled toddlers in adult bodies.

I agree with you in the most part, OP. Have worked in education for nearly 20 years and also have 3 kids.

I definitely think that the old school style of parenting, any kind of physical punishment, making kids feel ashamed, being sent to their room, any kind of food related punishment- all very much NOT ok.

But nor do I think the current trend for gentle parenting when done wrong (often) is right either. There is a balance to be had, I definitely think it’s good to explain to children why you’re doing x or y for example, but that sometimes, there is no choice, or a closed choice of two answers and if they won’t choose, you choose for them.

Eg, you need to go to the post office with your toddler. You can either:

A) ask toddler if they would like to go, and when they scream and refuse, you say ok we’ll stay at home.
B) you tell your toddler we’re going and give them no choice even if they scream.
C) you say, ‘we’re going to the post office now, would you like to wear your shoes or your boots?’

Obviously I’ve over simplified it but basically I believe children should be given some choices, and be able to express their feelings, but there should also be some non negotiables and some hard nos on certain things.

Consistency and follow through, letting children feel those big feelings, but acknowledging that those feelings are normal and don’t need to be ‘fixed.’ I am not a perfect parent by ANY stretch of the imagination but some of the stuff I see/hear is just ridiculous.

Someone once told me, as I frantically tried to cook and clean and be pregnant and entertain a whirlwind 6 month old... that 'teaching independence is not neglect'. It really stuck with me, alongside the importance of natural consequences (without being permissive). Now my children are adults/older teens they are well-rounded, independent yet loving, humans.

Yes, my mum too! She's 80 and for most of her working life she was a childcare professional. She is always gobsmacked at how much is organised for children these days and how little down-time they have to make their own entertainment, get creative or just chill.

I used to work in a school in a disadvantaged area, with ‘rough’ parents and children with violent behavioural issues. Those children were more respectful than the middle class children I interact with now

My first teaching job was in a very mixed well off/disadvantaged school in the early '70s and that was true even then. I once loaned a couple of pounds to a pupil who'd lost his money during a school residential, the posher kids were sneering You'll never see that again Miss! The day after we were back in school the boy stayed behind at the end of the lesson, pushed a couple of pound notes across my desk then extracted a little box of chocolates from his bag, There are from m'Mam, don't tell anyone, she says Ta. On the residential the posher kids refused to do their share of the work needed until they were told the error of their ways!

Boredom, disappointment, sadness, anger etc are all justifiable emotions in the right circumstances,

They also seem to expect school to be an extension of Netflix etc., they complain This is dead boring, yes love, it's simultaneous equations, it's not a Disney film.

This made me tear up. The gratitude from his mum.

I think the problem is some parents want a submissive, quiet "village" for their child. They expect babysitting left, right and centre from elderly parents, others to put up with their 'spirited' child running around a restaurant, and smile indulgently when child is inconveniencing other people.
Heaven forbid 'the village' ever corrects a child, tells them to not hit or used the word 'no' because 'Jemima has some big feelings she's working through '🙄

There's a lot of misinformation about gentle parenting. It isn't the same thing as permissive parenting, or just crap parenting. Gentle parenting involves boundaries and consequences, but without harsh authoritarian behaviour; no shouting, no smacking, no "do as you're told because I say so, or else". Instructions tend to include reasoning, and consequences tend to be natural rather than punitive for the sake of it (eg no lift because you weren't ready, rather than a week of no phone because you disobeyed). The idea is that children learn to do the right thing because it's the right thing, rather than because if they don't they will be made to suffer by someone bigger than they are.

We were "gentle parents" in the above sense. There were certainly rules, expectations and consequences. Ours are young adults now. They don't lack manners or a social conscience. Gentle parenting isn't the problem. The reasons for the rise in behavioural and emotional problems in children are, surprise surprise, multifaceted and complex, related to many other social issues that affect quality of life; poverty and inequality, underfunded support services and education, dietary inadequacies, systematic issues with parental employment and childcare....but it's much easier to scapegoat parents (mothers, really) by blaming everything on a convenient buzzword.

This made me tear up. The gratitude from his mum.

It made me gulp a bit too!

When my mother died my Year 11 form knew why I was off work and when I returned they came upstairs like a herd of elephants and ground to a halt by the door, almost like a domino rally where they all crash into each other! After doing the register in a silent room I sent them down to assembly and started to clear the desk, one real bete noir was last to get up but he came over to me, patted my hand and said You OK love? I was till you did that!!

That too was a school in a rough area, more than once I've said where I worked and the reply's been Bloody hell, you must be mad!

This is just lovely.