Don't flame me ....but immigration .....

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

Listening to our Immigration minister on good morning re Rwanda plan. The government ard going to preventvorvmake it harder for anyone coming to work here to bring their family... so.... the view is that say care jobs or jobs in NHS should be filled by British people...snd his message to businesses is not to firstly aim for overseas labour that could be cheaper.. and aim to get UK people into jobs. He says we have over a million consistent work avoiding individuals in UK as a statistic... and they are making it pay to work from now on hence benefit changes.
That's all good and well as a concept... but 2 things bother me here !! Well many...but 2 stand out:
Firstly, UK businesses that have traditionally made use of overseas labour like construction or leisure do not pay enough to entice people in the UK to take those jobs .
Secondly... if you are a UK citizen and you don't want to work... I Don't think forcing those individuals into critical jobs like caring or nursing is a good idea as they are probably not wired for those caring roles, and I would be worried about being looked after by someone that hasn't chosen this as a profession but essentially being forced into these roles.!! Admin or something fine... but what a ridiculous idea for the NHS! It's a tough job and some overseas nurses are better than our hone grown ones as its a calling I feel... to serve and to care.
Aibu to think I don't Want people that don't even want to work in these roles ?
The theory of it makes sense....but you can't practically apply it to industries like the NHS, etc.
I dread to think....

.

God it is so expensive. We're about to go for DH's ILR, I thought it would be cheaper since there's no IHS this time. Nope - £2885! It's expensive to emigrate here!

Before I get started, I should point out that I voted Remain and I always vote for the Liberal Democrats. But...

A. I really am so sick of the 'lazy Brits v hard working migrants' mantra that gets peddled. The worst offenders are rags like the Sun and the Mail (who ironically were very pro-Brexit).

B. The only real problem I have with immigration is that the majority of them are men. And no one in government can see the issue with it. All of a sudden Ali G's policy on immigration doesn't seem so silly.

Your last statement is factually incorrect

I'm jus incensed that the money wasted on the Rwanda plan could have gone to the NHS

I think the government need to make it easier for people to train or re-train into a different industry. Once you reach a cert wage and have responsibilities like bills and childcare it can be very hard to try and get back into education and training.

The most recently available data on immigration by sex doesn't back up that assertion - https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/onsdataonmigrationimmigrationintoukbygender

Lazy AF? I'd argue that caring jobs pay a pittance for the work they are doing. Shouldn't be less than £20 an hour but they get minimum wage!

My BF was in a supported accommodation house and all the staff were from the Philippines. Most had very limited English. They were unable to help with things as they couldn't read English and didn't know how things worked. I would try asking them things and they couldn't understand me and I couldn't understand them. The owner was super-rich and had many houses like this. The company raked in housing benefit for 2 bedrooms for each resident (6 in BF's house) even though there was only one spare room for staff to use. They also got funding for the staff etc.

My BF became very mentally unwell. They weren't making sure he had his medications or liaising with his mental health team. BF became paranoid and he thought they were locking him into the house so someone could harm him, because they kept locking the front door (which they shouldn't do.) During psychosis he asked a staff member to unlock the front door in an agitated manner. Due to him talking so quickly the staff member could not understand him and so didn't comply, BF asked a number of times. And then he punched the poor support worker. It wasn't fair on the staff or the residents. When the police came they had to arrange a translator for the support worker.

@Myfabby You do realise that @oOiluvfriendsOo is stating her recent work experience and is not claiming that British medical staff are miles above the immigrant staff. Evidently we do not want British or migrant staff within the NHS if they do not want to fulfill their care-giving duties. Countless times I had to beg staff to help my dad whilst in hospital last year and it seemed the only team that were particularly bothered about their patients was the palliative care team - a mix of wonderful, caring British and migrant nurses. Filling the NHS with migrants who clearly don’t want to be there is not the answer either and is not ‘saving’ the NHS. Maybe the change in migration rules with the higher income rate will eventually push up some NHS salaries and it will reward those already doing a great job and encourage people to see it as a more lucrative career both British and non (although I imagine this will be a long time coming)

I reckon the people who cry about “they’re taking our jobs” are those lazy gits who do the bare minimum. No one’s taking your job Bob. You haven’t got the work ethic to fulfil it.

😂 this! My dad ran a business before he retired, and employed mainly Poles. He’d offered jobs to Brits but they’d either not showed up for their first day, or taken so many sick days in just the first few months that they didn’t pass their probation. The Poles were great employees, punctual and hard working.

But then when you think they were willing to emigrate to find better paid work, it isn’t surprising. And they’re reaping the benefits now the Polish economy is doing very well and they’re able to return if they want (many have 😢).

Our economy is now sinking in part because we’ve lost a lot of our workforce through Eastern Europeans returning home, and Brits being unable to match their work ethic. There is an enormous cross section of the public who don’t work, or work just a tiny number of hours so they can claim a larger top up. They demand more and more from the country by way of support services yet give virtually nothing themselves. It’s a vicious cycle and it’s sinking us.

Where do you live!!? In the south east an unskilled construction labourer isn’t going to do a days work for less than 160!

I was talking about when this started.

One of the biggest problems with both immigration and the benefits system is the misinformation that has been peddled for years, so you do not really know the real figures. Mixed in with governments that instead of focusing on society as a whole began to focus on individuals retaining their wealth.
I find what @Parsley1234 said was interesting that only 5% of long term workless were actually work ready. I'll be honest and I thought it was a greater number.
Young generations have been told to complete degrees, of course they want grad jobs and have little interest in low paid, zero contract hour jobs. As we have an ageing population it naturally falls that care for the elderly and services for the elderly are increasing. However caring is not just a job you can do, I would rather people want to be carers.
Not sure if there is a solution that will please everyone but I think
Make it part of the Nursing/Drs degrees that they spend a year working in a care home. This would ensure a certain number of carers that you know want to work with people.
Increase the number of medical degrees being delivered and look at the avenues into Nursing, maybe scheme to make Nursing degree more affordable by reducing the amount of uni loan debt paid off over 5 years.
Review shortage industries and provide visas for these industries with a view to obtain citizenship if they stay for a set amount of years (5 minimum)
Use these figures for to plan/build more housing infrastructure to deal with incoming immigration (in my opinion this was one of the reasons for people voted for Brexit).
Create more construction apprenticeships/national construction company to build homes across Britain for incoming migrants/social housing and use rent money collected for operational costs.(offer to Brits first but if there are shortages arrange short/long term visas to oversees workers).
I would like to see a better system for taxpayers to view what their contributions have gone towards, possibly a website with up-to-date figures on what contributions are currently being spent on and a mechanism to convey my views to my MP on upcoming issues/bills that maybe include a voting system. I have very little contact with my MP, so I do not know how they are representing me as they have no idea of the views of their constituents.

There is a lot to do but it has taken a long time to get into the state it is now. I have yet to hear from any political party detailing an actual solution that might actually work to deal with the issues surrounding NHS and Immigration. Like others I do not think spending vast amounts of money on sending anyone to Rwanda is worthwhile.

@OnlyTheBravest you have some great ideas but the public just aren’t up to meeting your vision. Very few people would want to go into construction apprentices now. Things just aren’t as they were - young people have grown up on social media and seeing people make £££ in return for doing glamorous things like flogging beauty products or playing FIFA. Alongside school refusal and a lack of discipline they just don’t have what it takes to be up and out every day, used to set hours and a reporting manager who isn’t there to offer counselling or a sympathetic ear every 5 minutes.

I’ve said for a while this is a 2 pronged problem - a useless government and a useless public. We can get rid of the government but can’t get rid of the public so we will have to change them. This will take root and branch solutions which start frankly at birth. Parenting is soft to the point of damaging, expectations of what the country should offer you in return for zilch are very high, and the latter is supported by the notion that there is vast untapped wealth out there which would give us everything we want with a simple policy change. We may be able to raise some cash by ending nondoms and so on but nothing like the amount needed to revive the country. The only way that can happen is if everyone gets back to work, contributes and increases our productivity as well as tax revenue. Sadly it won’t happen and the next cohort of school leavers are even worse than the ones before.

I don’t even read the daily mail!

I have yet to meet a british fruit picker who is now out of work!

@OnlyTheBravest not ready fit for sad to say in my experience

I have to be honest when I did my nursing degree, I did it because I wanted to be a nurse - I didn't want to be a carer or HCA so I wouldn't have been happy to have to spend a year working in a nursing home as I'm assuming you mean working as a carer rather than as a nurse in a nursing home? I didn't want to work in a nursing home but that doesn't mean I didn't want to work with people!

I think that if the majority of people ask for lower immigration or no immigration, a politician has to listen and do something constructive about it.

Immigration seems to be picking up for politicians

US elections and EU. I expected it but they will need to work out how to respond as it’s not easy with set up as is

@StrawberryShortbread2001 Completely understand your point but I was stating that if we are looking for solutions to an increasing problem then it becomes a mandatory part of nursing/medical degree to complete a placement at a nursing home providing care for elderly patients. I can appreciate that it may not be the specialism that you wish to go into but lots of degrees cover areas that you may not wish to pursue but need to complete as a requirement of the syllabus.

US elections and EU. I expected it but they will need to work out how to respond as it’s not easy with set up as is

If 45k people cross the channel and cannot be deported, what do you do with them?
Eventually they are allowed back into the community, its just a matter of time, that is then a pull factor for more plus many work in the black economy ie disappear.

Same with Italy, Meloni was elected on an anti immigrant ticket, she cannot stop the boats, numbers have gone up.

& unless force is used (may well happen) it will continue.

Bear in mind, Germany has seen mass rallies against the far right, its not all one way, Wilder got just 25% of the vote in Holland.

‘British people are lazy’.
No they are not lazy, maybe they just want to be paid a fair wage.
Exploiting desperate people from abroad to keep wages low is not the brownie point you are hoping for.

Maybe if British supermarkets ergo British shoppers paid farmers a living wage they could afford to pay fruit pickers a decent wage.

Recent food inflation hasn't meant more money to British Farmers, the supermarkets have too much power over the producer.

If we were all prepared to pay more, SM's wouldn't pass it on and even if they did, would the farmers?

Tesco et al are currently making their highest profits ever... look at Baby milk manufacturers? they upped prices way beyond their input increases.

I’m going to make more of an effort to use farmers markets.
I’m so sick of farmers being exploited and this race to the bottom.