Don't flame me ....but immigration .....

[Noangelbuthavingfun]

Listening to our Immigration minister on good morning re Rwanda plan. The government ard going to preventvorvmake it harder for anyone coming to work here to bring their family... so.... the view is that say care jobs or jobs in NHS should be filled by British people...snd his message to businesses is not to firstly aim for overseas labour that could be cheaper.. and aim to get UK people into jobs. He says we have over a million consistent work avoiding individuals in UK as a statistic... and they are making it pay to work from now on hence benefit changes.
That's all good and well as a concept... but 2 things bother me here !! Well many...but 2 stand out:
Firstly, UK businesses that have traditionally made use of overseas labour like construction or leisure do not pay enough to entice people in the UK to take those jobs .
Secondly... if you are a UK citizen and you don't want to work... I Don't think forcing those individuals into critical jobs like caring or nursing is a good idea as they are probably not wired for those caring roles, and I would be worried about being looked after by someone that hasn't chosen this as a profession but essentially being forced into these roles.!! Admin or something fine... but what a ridiculous idea for the NHS! It's a tough job and some overseas nurses are better than our hone grown ones as its a calling I feel... to serve and to care.
Aibu to think I don't Want people that don't even want to work in these roles ?
The theory of it makes sense....but you can't practically apply it to industries like the NHS, etc.
I dread to think....

.

So having lived there I do need to defend Singapore a bit. It is true it encourages inward investment, but it has really good and cheap state housing which is well planned and available. It also has good and cheap healthcare facilities available to all and well planned and its Education system is world class. It is indeed very fussy about how it will allow in as migrants now, but Singapore is largely a City State of migrants.

I am sick of this “lazy Brits” racism.

and these are immigrants too right?

https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/nurses-caught-camera-vaping-scrolling-27974745

Having told millions of young, industrious EU citizens to bugger off back where they came from, how else was the UK going to find their replacements other than by importing labour from elsewhere? The UK economy was never going to survive the loss of so many workers.

Before Brexit, there was a flexible workforce made up of EU citizens who could come and go as they pleased, who came to the UK when there was seasonal work - particularly in construction, agriculture and hospitality - and who left at the end of the season. Young EU citizens came to the UK for a season or for a year or two and then for the most part returned home. This was a flexible system and simple to administer for both employees and for the employers.

It has been replaced by a system under which workers are imported from countries far away - Chile, Nepal, Vietnam, Tajikistan etc. - through a process that is open to abuse by "agents" and by the employers who use these agents. The employees cannot easily return to their home countries - there is no 2-hour £40 Ryanair or WizzAir flight to Santiago - and are in so much debt to their agents that they cannot afford to return until the debt is paid off.

Flexible, free movement of labour (which could have been better controlled as the UK could always have registered the EU workers and insisted that they left after 3 months without work) has been replaced by a system that makes workers debt slaves - and which also depresses wages for UK workers.

They are asylum seekers. International law on seeking asylum allows them to pass through multiple safe countries.

And how is it unfair on immigrants who want to come in legally? Does the Home Office reject visa applications from doctors and nurses based on the number who crossed in a boat?

The asylum seekers arriving by smugglers/people traffickers in channel boats or the backs of lorries are not illegal immigrants. They are illegal entrants. Only if their claim for asylum is rejected do they then become officially an illegal immigrant and are deported. They still have right of appeal, so the illegal immigrant decision can be overturned. Over 80% of asylum seekers are deemed to be legal asylum seekers on the first pass, I can’t recall how many succeed on appeal. Some of the reasons asylum seekers are rejected and deemed illegal immigrants are due to minor technicalities such as fleeing torture and death threats from organised crime or domestic/family violence like forced marriage rather than from an oppressive government and not bad intentions on the part of the asylum seeker.

Importing cheap labour while a million Brits refuse to work is a scandal. However the horse has bolted. Trying to cap the numbers now is futile. The indigenous population is so used to living off benefits that their knee jerk reaction to everything is ask for more public funding and handouts.

And the same people complain about not being able to get council houses and NHS appointments. While we import hundred of thousands todo the jobs they don’t want to do. They are like Turkeys voting for Xmas.

More migration means more services needed. Which means more migration. A ponzi scheme that has decimated the per capita income in this country. Making every single person poorer.

Flexible, free movement of labour (which could have been better controlled as the UK could always have registered the EU workers and insisted that they left after 3 months without work) has been replaced by a system that makes workers debt slaves - and which also depresses wages for UK workers.

Excellent point and one that echoes experts on the many failures of Brexit

Agree with you. Forcing reluctant people into caring roles is a disaster waiting to happen. I certainly wouldn’t want to be “cared” for by a reluctant worker. It’s inviting poor standards and even abuse.

if this is such a bloody marvellous idea, why have they waited for the dying months of their government to introduce it? More desperate dog whistling. This shower is a complete f**k up and it knows it. More and more extreme shit in a desperate attempt to cling on.

Importing cheap labour while a million Brits refuse to work is a scandal.

It would be a scandal if it were true. Sadly, it is a dog whistle to demonise the poor and disabled.

Another day - another play on the "bloody foreigners" line that's going to be flogged to death between now and the general election.

It's all the Conservatives have left.

They can't very well go into the election defending their record on healthcare, social care, education and training, policing, local government services, managing the economy, the sunlit uplands and the rest of the things that they've stuffed up over the last 13 years, so they're going to keep it simple and fabricate a scapegoat. "It's all the fault of someone else - someone foreign!" will be on the front pages of all the usual rags (and on numerous social media forums) from now until the end of next year.

They just don't want to put the truth to the public.

We have an ageing population. The birth rate is not providing enough workers to prop things up. We need immigration to fill the gaps.

The benefits system is already punitive and horrible. The people who are out of work are often very vulnerable with complex medical or mental health needs, chaotic start in life etc. which means it takes more than just giving them a minimum wage job to sort things out.

If I was in charge, I'd tax properties more in inheritance tax. Start a national programme to improve health through healthy eating and exercise to change the culture and reduce toll on nhs. Pay carers properly. Give public service workers like doctors, nurses and teachers better pay and conditions.

@lkwhjis More migration means more services needed.

It doesn't. Migrants tend to be younger, make less demands on services then return to home countries. That's how it worked with eu migrants at least - non-eu migrants might be more likely to stay. Another glorious blessing of brexit

I like this..

'If I was in charge, I'd tax properties more in inheritance tax. Start a national programme to improve health through healthy eating and exercise to change the culture and reduce toll on nhs. Pay carers properly. Give public service workers like doctors, nurses and teachers better pay and conditions.'

Particularly the public health aspect. But it's too long term a fix for a government fixated with short term sound bites and dog whistles.

I'd also make investment in modern sectors a priority. Because fluffy and slightly left wing that I am, I recognise it's private enterprise that generates tax receipts

I worked as a recruiter before Brexit and agree wholeheartedly with this - I'd despair for my excellent British candidates, because new arrival candidates from Eastern Europe would accept minimum wage for a "foot in the door" and continually price them out, squeezing down the £ per hour offered. Everything from apprenticeships, to admin, to lorry driving. This happened on a rolling basis as so many were arriving - very happy employers getting people on the cheap, but quality & skills fell massively.

I agree about care work needing a better wage & conditions- I'm being made redundant soon and love old people, but I literally couldn't pay the mortgage & bills on my tiny terrace on those wages, & would be setting myself up for a miserable retirement with no savings or pension. Same if I went into childcare. It's not right.

But the Australians tended to be young on a worldwide adventure.

Exactly. I worked overseas for a little while in my early twenties - not for money, but for the opportunity to live in a particular country for a bit. There were many others like me, it was all a great adventure.
It would be entirely different now, if I had to do the same job i did then, being separated from my family and sending money home.

I think people like my Dad that turned up in 1959 with a passport and some qualifications so could prove who he was is a good starting point to any immigrant arriving here.

I actually know one immigrant who arrived by boat and is put up in a local hotel, he volunteers where I do. He is a nice guy, he spent three years in France but the French are not as welcoming, the feeling towards immigrants has changed as more and more arrive there which is why they risk the boats. It will happen here. For the last few years it’s been just people on the extreme ends of pro and anti immigration policy that get worked up. It’s the same for any political movement or situation,

Most people want to be seen as nice, the shy Tory effect is a perfect example as was Brexit. If there was a referendum tomorrow that would stop the boats somehow, without loss of life what do you think the outcome would be?

People tend to flock towards people with similar value sets as them, whether it’s the actual doctrine of an organised religion or a movement or just a general feeling. Even the neighbourhoods we live in. When I look at the crime map to my area you can see where all the anti social behaviour is centred, it’s called the broken windows effect. It means that a lot of us walk around blinkered and feel as if our way is the right way because we choose to mix with people with similar value sets.

A million percent this !

I think there should be compulsory training & qualifications for care workers, to include fluent English. Elderly people need care and company. There should be a pay structure, pensions and value placed on these jobs.

I'm so sick of seeing this racist, xenophobic trope on these threads. I work in an international team for a corporate, and our leadership love appointing a British candidate because we're known for our high quality education and we're bang in the centre of world time zones, so can cover a huge part of our customer base. Every country has their fair share of indigenous population who don't want to work, but our British ones are just more obvious because we don't throw them out onto the street - labour laws, benefits etc make it a much more comfortable life here than the Philippines, where my in-laws are from. If you want whole families homeless on the streets and the parents forcing their children into paedo's cars for money, as I see in Manila, carry on voting for people who want to take these labour laws and benefits away - it won't make the kids' dads any more likely to work or pay child support.

When my DS was in hospital, I couldn't always understand what staff were saying. It was really awkward. In such critical roles, people need to be able to communicate effectively

When my DS was in hospital, I couldn't always understand what staff were saying. It was really awkward. In such critical roles, people need to be able to communicate effectively”

I’m very pro-immigration, we’d be stuffed without overseas workers.. Agree with this though. Good English is a very important requirement, especially in a role where the staff member is dealing with elderly, sometimes confused or hard of hearing patients.

I agree about immigration being a Ponzi scheme. I don't agree with your casual anti-British racism.

Also you win the award for most over-used stupid cliche with that Turkeys voting for Christmas shit.

@Hellenika we shouldn't be taking all these people and they are illegal immigrants at the point of entry. We're not the only safe country in the world. We're a tiny country and can't solve all the world's problems. They are MANY countries they can safely stay and claim asylum, they're abusing the asylum system by coming here and skipping multiple safe countries.

The most vulnerable are those who are unable to pay vast amounts to human traffickers and if we take asylum seekers , those are the ones we should be focusing on, not those who pay for these illegal activities and who are often young men who are also a big security risk. It is OUR choice how many we should take and they need to come via legal routes ONLY. They have no right to come here. All these people who are pro illegal immigration and pro human traffickers are the first to blame the government and everyone else when NHS and other public services are struggling and we don't have enough housing etc. but will hypocritically happily add to the problem by wanting illegal immigrants to continue coming here.