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Original poster

Are you happy for the government to automatically have the ability to have a look at your bank account?

350 replies

LeRougeEtLeNoir · 04/12/2023 19:37

So the government wants (and very likely will get) the ability to look at the bank account of anyone receiving

  • UC
  • a pension
  • child benefit
  • PIP etc…
How comfortable are you to see them been able to do that? Even though a pension or child benefit isn’t income related so there is no fraud to tackle. And they won’t tell you about it either. I mean that’s about every single one of us there.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/new-legislation-gives-government-permission-to-snoop-on-your-bank-account-364408/?fbclid=IwAR3XA89weQHzsIEN7A2TSigPcWM183fGKTkH7ByaainNVTcgeR8e0RXAr24

New legislation gives government permission to snoop on your bank account

A clause in the Data Protection and Digital Information Bill hands the DWP power to inspect the bank accounts.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/new-legislation-gives-government-permission-to-snoop-on-your-bank-account-364408/?fbclid=IwAR3XA89weQHzsIEN7A2TSigPcWM183fGKTkH7ByaainNVTcgeR8e0RXAr24

OP posts:
SarahShorty · 05/12/2023 15:13

It really is a slippery slope. With CBDC which this proposal paves the way to, there is an expiration date on the currency and what you spend the currency on is controlled.

If, say, you've gone over your monthly quota for steak, you won't be able to buy it for a while. This level of control will then deepen and go into your travel habits; if you've done too many miles in your car (probably electric), your car will be immobilised.

If you've had your heating on too much, they'll cut that off for a while. If you've bought too many clothes be they second hand or new, if you've used too much water, if you've used too much electricity, if you've used too much internet, if you've made too many phone calls or sent too many texts etc Every fine detail of your life will be under close surveillance.

Coming off the gold standard in the 1970s has been a disaster. Fiat currency has allowed the government to swindle, lie and cheat for decades and they're running out of duct-tape, cable ties, glue, blu-tack and pins to hold it all together.

At this point, I'd be investing in gold. The value of gold never plummets and by putting your hard-earned money into a stable and solid asset, you'll have something to fall back on should everything go base over apex.

It really doesn't matter about whether or not you have something to hide. They want power, that's it. That's the end game of a government that has grown increasingly power-hungry. And honestly, it also doesn't matter if the entire nation throws its arms up in protest, they'll ram this crap through anyway.

EmmaEmerald · 05/12/2023 15:41

@SarahShorty The problem with investing is gold...you have to trust the people who are holding it and ultimately if many do it, the government will find a way to devalue it. Plus you can't keep it yourself so you will simply end up with an investment that's hard to cash in when you need it.

I do hope to be dead by the time the worst happens though so hopefully it's irrelevant, but everything in an app drives me nuts already.

i'm living in a new development, probably a bad idea, and I know of one where they tried to cap how high you could have your heating. I think hot countries are trying similar with air con.

Universalsnail · 05/12/2023 15:46

No I don't think this is ok. It is a huge intrusion of privacy and tbh oppressive. I am not sure why anyone would be ok with this.

Original poster
LeRougeEtLeNoir · 05/12/2023 15:57

NeverDropYourMooncup · 05/12/2023 13:16

Oh, I don't know - the ability to drill right down into exactly what people of x age, location, precise income level, distance from y, etc, to the second would be pretty valuable in a commercial context, for retail purposes and for political ones.

I work with data all the time. The scope for profit to be made from this knowledge of people's behaviour, choices, habits, movements is beyond imagination. As has been said for many years, Knowledge is Power.

It's also been said that with Great Power Comes Responsibility, but nobody's going to give that much heed when there's power and money to be made.

Show quote history

Thats the reason all shops get you to use their own customer cards with plenty of discounts to entice you to do so.
They know what you are buying, where, when. And it’s so valuable they give you stuff back for that privilege.

(Think Tesco, LIdl amongst others)

OP posts:
enchantedsquirrelwood · 05/12/2023 16:03

I thought they already could to be honest. After all, they seem to know exactly how much interest I've earned when I do my tax return, I had assumed it was all recorded to my NI number.

AgnesX · 05/12/2023 16:07

Sinc PIP isn't means tested I'm surprised at that.

If the government are allowed to do it then people will have to agree if they benefits.

It's ridiculous but it is what it is

SutWytTi · 05/12/2023 16:09

enchantedsquirrelwood · 05/12/2023 16:03

I thought they already could to be honest. After all, they seem to know exactly how much interest I've earned when I do my tax return, I had assumed it was all recorded to my NI number.

This is very different to being able to see your transactions.

Fraudornot · 05/12/2023 16:22

Anyone know what will happen if someone is the appointee for someone who lacks capacity for their own management of money? Will it give them the right to access the appointee's bank account?

EmmaEmerald · 05/12/2023 16:39

Fraudornot · 05/12/2023 16:22

Anyone know what will happen if someone is the appointee for someone who lacks capacity for their own management of money? Will it give them the right to access the appointee's bank account?

So you mean...I'm operating mum's account

does that give them the right to look at mine?

I think atm it's about the person in receipt of benefits but the next step is bound to be "everyone, because money laundering" which they don't really care about anyway.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 05/12/2023 16:50

LeRougeEtLeNoir · 05/12/2023 15:57

Thats the reason all shops get you to use their own customer cards with plenty of discounts to entice you to do so.
They know what you are buying, where, when. And it’s so valuable they give you stuff back for that privilege.

(Think Tesco, LIdl amongst others)

Show quote history

Amazon's been trying to get people to share their non Amazon activity through their customer app. It wouldn't be just one company, it would be everything, able to be linked to ads/product placement, news stories, their health, their sex life, their salary credits, their pensions, their relationships with others (transfers, payments, the comments/reference on payments). And for everybody, not just a small number who have consented. Everybody. No choice, no opt out. Everybody and everything.

Nobody will want Tesco's clubcard data/access to a database for specific things if people's entire existences are up for sale.

GrandTheftWalrus · 05/12/2023 16:53

From posts I've seen on a fb group they have already started this as someone uploaded a statement saying XXp in savings.

ErmWhatever · 05/12/2023 16:53

I can't think of a strong enough word to describe just how stupid you have to be to agree with this. I see the
"If YoU hAve NoThInG tO HiDe" types are out in force.
It's the type of shit that makes me wish I never had children.

LittleMissSunshiner · 05/12/2023 17:08

ErmWhatever · 05/12/2023 16:53

I can't think of a strong enough word to describe just how stupid you have to be to agree with this. I see the
"If YoU hAve NoThInG tO HiDe" types are out in force.
It's the type of shit that makes me wish I never had children.

I totally agree with you altho I was somewhat 'if you have nothing to hide' earlier. Reason being is I know they can already see this info, they're just choosing to tell us now. Why?

Next election? Generalised stirring the pot?

JenniferBooth · 05/12/2023 17:08

@MistressoftheDarkSide @EmmaEmerald I know what you mean The temptation to say i told you so is getting harder and harder to resist,

sixteenfurryfeet · 05/12/2023 17:14

There are way more bank accounts than there are staff available to look at them. And even if they used some computerised algorithm to pick out accounts 'of interest' they'd still need to go through those, and it would take forever.

JL690 · 05/12/2023 17:17

No, never. It is my personal account, none of their business.

EmmaEmerald · 05/12/2023 17:22

JenniferBooth · 05/12/2023 17:08

@MistressoftheDarkSide @EmmaEmerald I know what you mean The temptation to say i told you so is getting harder and harder to resist,

For me, it's more "why didn't you fucking listen when I told you, instead of assuming I was off my rocker".

That said, my mother and sister now are taking my advice, and my best friend fixed her mortgage rate when I told her to in 2021....interestingly, she only told me that this weekend.

She is definitely someone who is embarrassed by having fallen for distraction tactics but the good news is, she did fix the rate - otherwise she'd be paying 5.85% apparently? Which the muppet show players of 2020 seem to find a total shock.

biggest eyeroll EVER.

ALongHardWinter · 05/12/2023 17:22

No,I am not at all happy about it. I'm on benefits,and I have absolutely nothing to hide in the way of hidden savings,but the whole thing just makes me feel very uncomfortable. I think it's a blatant invasion of privacy. I think it's just the thin edge of the wedge of a Big Brother state. The next thing we know, people will be being called out on how they have spent their benefit money. A case of 'Oh,so he/she has just spent X amount on a McDonald's'. Not acceptable! You should be buying your food from the reduced section in the supermarket'. I think the whole thing stinks. As a previous poster said,it's punishing the vulnerable for being vulnerable. But I suppose it's no more than I'd expect from this shitty Tory government. They've always made a point of picking on the poorest people in society.

SarahShorty · 05/12/2023 17:23

EmmaEmerald · 05/12/2023 15:41

@SarahShorty The problem with investing is gold...you have to trust the people who are holding it and ultimately if many do it, the government will find a way to devalue it. Plus you can't keep it yourself so you will simply end up with an investment that's hard to cash in when you need it.

I do hope to be dead by the time the worst happens though so hopefully it's irrelevant, but everything in an app drives me nuts already.

i'm living in a new development, probably a bad idea, and I know of one where they tried to cap how high you could have your heating. I think hot countries are trying similar with air con.

Nobody holds your gold for you. That's stocks and shares. For stocks and shares, you hire a stock broker/investor who can hold your money and recommend the best stocks to invest it in.

With gold, you just buy it. Gold bullions, silver Britannia coins and gold sovereigns. As long as you buy up as much gold as possible now, the government can't stop you buying and they certainly devalue a precious metal. You buy some and it gets sent to you and then you put it away in a safe.

The gold price has shot up recently, I believe it's currently around £1700 per ounce.

SarahShorty · 05/12/2023 17:24

certainly can't devalue a precious metal*

EmmaEmerald · 05/12/2023 17:25

SarahShorty · 05/12/2023 17:23

Nobody holds your gold for you. That's stocks and shares. For stocks and shares, you hire a stock broker/investor who can hold your money and recommend the best stocks to invest it in.

With gold, you just buy it. Gold bullions, silver Britannia coins and gold sovereigns. As long as you buy up as much gold as possible now, the government can't stop you buying and they certainly devalue a precious metal. You buy some and it gets sent to you and then you put it away in a safe.

The gold price has shot up recently, I believe it's currently around £1700 per ounce.

Show quote history

Yes, but you're not storing it at home, so it's being held for you physically.

unless you are storing it at home, that's not something I can do, sadly.

eta - oh you are storing at home, yes, I definitely can't do that. Do you mind if I ask how much you'd feel okay with having in a safe at home?

LinguisticallyCunning · 05/12/2023 17:40

It fucks me off. I claim benefits, as well as work, and I'm automatically treated with suspicion because of that. It's as if I'm a criminal. Like the peer Jenny Jones said earlier, if we're going to check the accounts of people claiming from the public purse, we ought to start with the accounts of, and taxes paid by, politicians before rolling it out to everyone else.

SarahShorty · 05/12/2023 18:01

EmmaEmerald · 05/12/2023 17:25

Yes, but you're not storing it at home, so it's being held for you physically.

unless you are storing it at home, that's not something I can do, sadly.

eta - oh you are storing at home, yes, I definitely can't do that. Do you mind if I ask how much you'd feel okay with having in a safe at home?

Edited
Show quote history

As much as you can afford and as much as your safe can hold. Buy another or bigger safe if needed.

EmmaEmerald · 05/12/2023 18:05

@SarahShorty blimey

you must have excellent security! I wouldn't do that in my flat.

I'm also imagining what it's like with home insurance but I'm guessing people just chance it and don't tell them they have a lot of gold in the home.

EmmaEmerald · 05/12/2023 18:07

LinguisticallyCunning · 05/12/2023 17:40

It fucks me off. I claim benefits, as well as work, and I'm automatically treated with suspicion because of that. It's as if I'm a criminal. Like the peer Jenny Jones said earlier, if we're going to check the accounts of people claiming from the public purse, we ought to start with the accounts of, and taxes paid by, politicians before rolling it out to everyone else.

Agree
mum will be liable to checks too - pension and attendance allowance.

it took me a long time to persuade her to apply for AA because she didn't want state involvement but now understands the state will dig around whatever, so she might as well take what she's entitled to.