To feel completely disillusioned with the Labour Party?

[user6776]

I've voted Labour since I've been able to vote. Come from a working class family of Labour voters also and I'd never vote Tory, but I'm feeling so disillusioned by Labour at the minute.

Wasn't really a fan of Starmer to begin with, but even less so after his comments about Margaret Thatcher. I really don't want to vote for them at the next GE.

AIBU to just not vote at all?

I actually agree to a large extent with you here.

This whole argument suffers from an extreme kind of binary reductionism. You can either be an idealistic socialist dreamer with no chance of ever being elected, or a pragmatic savvy operator with no grounding in principle of any kind. That's not really how it works.

I certainly don't subscribe to the leftist idea that Blair's Labour government did no good at all. It was sure as hell better, in so many ways, than the Tory governments that came before or after. But Blair in 1997 campaigned with clear intentions about how he planned to improve the country, rooted in clear social democratic (albeit not socialist) principles. What has Starmer said now to compare with that? That he's going to use a different method from the Tories to satisfy the bigots about immigration?

This is another aspect of the reductionism: the idea that because Starmer obviously isn't like Corbyn, he must be like Blair. But he isn't. He doesn't have the originality, the conviction or the vision that Blair had (whether you agree with that vision or not).

He seems to just be relying on the idea that the best thing a Labour leader can do is have no principles whatsoever, so that nobody can say he has the wrong ones.

I don't think that the highly polarised and binary politcs of the UK is ever going to be resolved unless we bring in full PR. That has its own drawbacks, but at least it means every vote counts, it would allow for a range of political parties across the spectrum to be represented in Parliament and it would ultimately be more democratic.

I disagree with your first paragraph. They know that there will be so little money available for anything. They can have various ideological aims but have to work first on plugging the financial leaks of the Tories and restoring the economy. So we at least know the things they want to do but they can't jump in and immediately do them.

The difference is that the Tories have had 14 years and not done any of them. They were too busy throwing the money away on their mates.

There is money available, we're a currency printing state. Choosing not to use it for fiscal stimulation is an ideological choice. Even the USA used it as a mechanism for avoiding the worst effects of covid on their economy. They also used it to transform their fortunes in response to the great depression and we used it after WWII.

Even if you believe in the myth that we need to raise revenue before spending it (we never do) they have choices that they're ignoring. Equalising capital gains, a wealth tax etc.

It's all bullshit from Labour, like their plans for the NHS. Using public funds to pay private hospitals employing NHS doctors to shorten waiting lists, but ignoring the fundamental problem with using private healthcare. Nothing to do with the front bench receiving a fortune in donations from private healthcare though. It's only the Tories that are corrupt.

My brother and family have spent decades voting Lib Dem in Southend-on-Sea although they are Labour supporters. Traditionally Southend ppl would vote for a pig's bladder on a stick as long as it had a blue rosette pinned to it. But there's talk one of the seats is at risk this time.

I am in no hurry to take anything I read about Starmer at face value at present. They will try to attack him, anyone around him and make mountains of mole hills because they are on an election campaign.
Do bote, anyone who fits your values.
But bear in mind that what you have today is fruit of the tory policies of the last years. And they had 14 years to make our lives better. But well.... mine is not. So I will be judging them basrd on that, which are facts that I can see with my very own eyrs, instead of some interpretation of someone's words out of context.

Just because the Tories have printed and borrowed at record levels doesn't mean it's a good idea for the economy!

I have learnt something new on the news yesterday. Because my ignorance knows no boundaries and I had, somehow, yet again missed this earlier.
You know when they say that there are shortages of some medicines in UK. Maybe some of you had to go around several pharmacies to get a prescription.
Yesterday, pharmacists were on the news explaining that there are some medicines for which they pay more than the government will give them for them. So, everytime the pharmacist dispenses that medicines, they lose money from their own pocket.
How difficult can this be to address by the corresponding minister? But, no, they will not sort the issue. They will abuse the good faith of hard working people. Under the government of a man whose mother was or is a pharmacist herself.
Really, I have no words.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-68497700.amp

If somebody can find something that has improved in recent years, instead of finding themselves remembering better days in the past, please let me know.
Just have a look to the wage the gentleman in the article used to have and what is happening to him today.

I've got something! They've made their already very rich friends richer. Loyalty to ones friends is a good thing, isn't it?

Yeah, that it is true. What a "nice" friends club!

Starmer is extremely strategic and imo has been doing what the Tories always do and Labour never - say and do what is necessary to win. Everything about his past and what people say if him is that he is principled and decent. He is also absolutely ruthless in trying to get Labour back into power again. I for one hope he does, this country is desperate for a change of government.

This is a good point. I'm glad he's doing this. I don't think the country could cope with another 5 years of Tories.

Absolutely this. Labour has always been held to higher standards than the Tories - people are whinging about Starmer's ruthlessness because Labour aren't allowed to be like that. They have to be nice and they have to be losers. Now they're doing what needs to be done to get into power and good for them. Ideological purity is a hiding to nowhere.

I had high hopes for him in opposition. I know Johnson gave the Tories a stonking majority and Labour were pretty powerless. But Starmer's opposition has been pretty pathetic. Fair play that he bothered to turn up to work, and for that perhaps he should get the big job. Will say and do what he needs to get into power isn't really that great a thing is it? Just implies he's duplicitous, and that much we already know. Whether that comes from him or the higher echelons of the party/machine who knows.

Didn't I read on here something like Gove is nice to work with? Corbyn just emanated a decent authentic air of principle. Sadly I just don't get those vibes from many other MPs.

I can't claim any personal knowedge of any candidate in the race. I don't think our tiny village rates personal appearances by major figures, and in my 35 years of life here, nobody has ever sought my opinion on politics. I don't dislike Sunak, who I think is doing a good job despite being handed a basket of nasties on fire. He's calmed the situation, IMO quite brilliantly, but he also has a lot of responsibility to carry for some of the Covid bail out fiascos.

I also don't dislike Sir Keir. I would like a much more precise steer on his policies and direction than has been revealed so far. I like Wes Streeting at health very much. It would be nice to know much more about how KS plans to resolve the immigration issue without being barracked for racism. (Not sure there is one). He's dull, but so is Rishi. I actually like dull and COMPETENT.

And to complete the circle of how unelectable my agenda is, I thought Theresa May's dementia tax was completely necessary to salvaging social care.

I feel totally let down by this new Labour Government, for one thing they politisize everything. But their Winter fuel tactics beggar belief, they have removed this from almost all the people who have worked hard, paid all their dues and demands etc. At the same time offering a free cheque to a great many people who have put very little back, some who have lived on benefits for ever?? Encouraging people not to bother working, what's the point, we don't get any better thought of, may as well live on benefits?? what a shambles. And we can't even die without every greedy government demanding nearly half our savings, we can't even help our children or grandchildren, and IHT hits people at their most vulnerable time when they have lost a family member. Is it any wonder this country does not prosper.

Taking away WFA from higher rate tax payers will save about £800m a year .. add in all those who are paid over a taxable income and you are talking billions. It should not be a universal benefit.

Labour need to fix a lot of stuff that the Tories ruined. It's not going to happen in a couple of months.

What a very silly post. The vast majority of estates in the UK do not incur IHT. It taxes the very rich. I am from the Netherlands, where the IHT nil band is in the low tens of thousands and I paid IHT on my mum's very modest estate. And no, I didn't begrudge it because I hadn't earned that money.

What do you mean, cheques for people who haven't worked? Which policy does that refer to?

Given the rest of that post I wouldn’t hold your breath for a sensible answer. Complaining about a PM and government politicising everything is beyond belief. It’s what they’re for.

It wouldn't have come as a complete surprise they had full access to the figures. I note Labour didn't put abolishing the Winter Fuel Allowance in their manifesto. I wonder why?

The vast majority of estates in the UK do not incur IHT. That's about to change, quite dramatically, however.

That’s odd because the IFS and OBR didn’t have full access to those figures. The current year’s budgets were already overspent along with the entire year’s reserve funds, nobody knew about it and Hunt was hiding it to the extent of promising tax cuts. It wasn’t in the manifesto because they had no intention of doing it until they were faced with a £22 billion overspend.

Right now that statement is no more than speculation.