To think the rich/poor divide is so unfair

[Mooshamoo]

I know people who were born into lovely comfortable families.

These people had enough money. They also had two supportive caring parents. No worries or stres at all..Every one of those people went on to college, and went on to have really good jobs. They have a good social life, they get to socialise with people who also came from comfortable families.

I came from a troubled family. My father abandoned us. Which left us in poverty. So we had no money. I also had no emotional support whatsoever. My mother was an emotional mess and couldn't cope on her own with anything, I basically had to be her mother from a very young age. I had a lot of emotional worries and stress. As a young woman, early twenties, I remembered seeing other young women enjoy nights out. I never got to have anything like that as I was just struggling to survive.

I didn't have support to achieve anything in my life, and I ended up in dead end jobs and I still now don't have a lot of money, I don't have good relationships. I don't have great friendships, as I find the rich affluemt comfortable people don't want to socialise with me. I remember one person saying to me "oh is that a shitty little job that you do".

And if I socialise with people from a similar troubled background to myself, these peollw have so many problems of their own, that these never turn out to be good healthy friendships for me. We just add to each others problems. For example we will sit with each other and one person will say "I lived in foster care and it was horrendous, the family were abusive" I will say "one time i lived in emergency accommodation as a young woman and it was awful". Our lives were so bad that to be around each other, we just make each other sadder and worse.

It just feels like being trapped in a cycle of poverty and suffering that's not fair and there is no way out.

It's luck of birth.

further yourself. Have interests

how do people further themselves whilst working 12 hours a day or more for minimum wage to pay rent and bills and nothing else?

Most interests cost something to pursue. Swimming? mountain climbing? family history? reading (ok that one might be free if you have a library within reasonable walking distance)?

You have to stop blaming everyone and everything else and find the wherewithal inside you to do something with your life

Sure. It worked for you. I got myself out of a hole when my husband left me and have worked full time with 3 kids to manage as well. But just because I managed it doesn't mean that everyone can. Not everyone has the tools - and who knows what they are - to manage it, to keep on going, to break the cycle. Disability, illness, poverty, minimum wage work, children in childcare, caring responsibilities ....all makes it very, very hard to manage to move forwards in a meaningful way.

There needs to be recoginition of the hole some people fall into. The vicious circle. Provision of free childcare, out of hours childcare, free training and education would be a fantastic start. Even nightschool is pretty much gone now.

I was brought up in the late 60s/early 70s in a house that was riddled with damp (literally the wallpaper in the bedroom would have a thin layer of ice on it in the winter). We had rats in the cellar and an outside toilet. We had a bath in front of the fire (old tin bath) once a week as we had no hot running water and we had no heating other than a couple of open fires.

Dad was semi-literate and worked in poorly paid jobs because of it. Mum worked in the evenings so they didn't have to pay for child care - Mum took us to school, Dad picked us up and did our tea whilst Mum got off to work.

Both of them were heavily into us doing our best at school. Dad insisted we learned to read and write as he knew it had held him back. And they were incredible parents, kind, loving and hard working but didn't have a penny sometimes. Both of them went without food to feed us when money was tight.

I left school with 3 CSEs (1970s) and got a job in an office. I did more O levels at evening school as I realised I needed them to get on. Then I met my now (thankfully) ex husband. That turned into an abusive relationship and I finally left aged 35 years old.

I took an OU qualification at 37 years old and became a manager, met my now husband and got married again aged 41 years old. Our only child arrived when I was 43 years old.

Am I happy? You bet I am! Do I deserve the life I now have? Absolutely. And I always have.

I am as good as the next person, have worked hard and had a fair bit of luck with good managers who saw potential and a personality that doesn't take no for an answer if I want something.

You're as entitled as the next person to a good life. Opportunities aren't over until you draw your last breath.

Completely understand - was thinking more of jobs at one of the many fabulous schools in Ireland!

You have explained it perfectly. People who haven't experienced poverty/working class mentality/class divide don't get it. And sometimes even those who made the leap don't get it because something in their life enabled them to do so wether it was a positive role model, luck, skill set, talent, brains or looks.

The majority of working class will remain so due to lack of opportunities, the system working against them and lack positive role models.

And with the cost of living, uni costs and cost of houses it's getting harder and harder.

Understandably, when life has knocked you every which way you can lose yourself.

You’ve identified much of what has gone wrong for you, so hopefully you can summon up all your strength and courage to start moving forward.

One step at a time and every bit of progress will start improving your confidence 🤞🏾 🙏🏾.

Well I grew up in what would probably be a lower middle class family. Money was tight, I often didn’t have new (or clean) school uniform but I was never hungry. Parents were not involved or particularly keen. Probably had too many kids.

In ROI education is pushed down our throats from the point you enter secondary school. Education grants are given so it is covered. Much more so than the UK (where I currently live and have children), there was a push and opportunity to achieve education.

You confuse poverty with having shit parents. Many of friends from poorer backgrounds had great parents.

Anyway, if you want to succeed their are agencies that can help and stop having a pity party about it.

Got to say op the very wealthy I know are often quite unhappy and don't use their wealth to enrich their lives only to buy more expensive versions of things.

Then poorer people I know are the kinder ones who know what really matters in life.

But I agree, it isn't fair. And if I were rich I'd certainly spend my time trying to improve things in the world.

there is research and evidence being poor results in health inequalities. The poor die earlier and experience more disruptions , this is a fact.
on these threads there is always the oh but I knew an aristocrat/loaded adult they had a ghastly life. Blah blah. Statistically you die younger, have health inequalities, suffer decreased mental health when you’re poor. So the anecdotes about poor rich kids are the minority. The rich and middle class have greater social and health outcomes and they always have advantages. Even if,they do land on their arses or have hard luck they have the money and network to access rehabilitation and resources

There are many people who came from extremely troubled, abusive and disadvantaged backgrounds, who have gone on to be successful and happy by being determined and resourceful.

where do they fit into the Life's So Unfair narrative?

My parents came from East Africa in 1970 with barely anything, I'm talking £50 in cash. They had to leave the lives they built with nothing to show for it. They left their homes and belongings and leave with just what was in their pockets really and a suitcase full of clothes. They had to start from scratch, building their lives here on their own with no family support in a strange and cold country. With a lot of hard work they managed to build a comfortable life. But the one thing they believed that would get their kids out of poverty was education. They made sure their kids made the most of their education, myself and most of my cousins all have professional careers now and are able to give our children pretty comfortable lives.
I truly believe education is the way out of poverty.

All I’m reading here is that no you can’t understand or imagine other peoples situations which is sad. You were fortunate to have a mother who read to you. There will always be people who can escape their situation - but not the vast majority. Especially those in poor health. We live in a system that relies on having the “relatively” poor. Not to mention that even when trying and competing not everyone can win by definition.

I’m not sure wealth is any better or worse than many other life altering things that boil down to luck…
health? You might live to 110 or not make it to 25
fertility? You might conceive first go, need IVF, or not ever become a parent
friends? Some have great friends others not so much
nearly everything in life has a big element of luck, not just how much money you are born into.

They are the minority, just because they succeeded doesn’t make it the norm
Do not confuse against the odds achievements as being normative

I totally agree but also agree that individuals can and do get themselves out of the societal traps they were born into. I find it so sad to see the lack of respect for education most prominent in the poorer parents in our school. Those are the kids that misbehave most in class and without parental support will be less likely to go into further and higher education. And the cycle continues. On the other hand my SIL doesn't really value education but only because she didn't benefit, having married a wealthy man young. Her DC are just drifting but will have houses bought for them so perhaps don't need to worry.

Education, education, education. It's why we're about to move DS to private school and sacrifice other things to fund it.

It is unfair l, I was born into a family who have enough money to be comfortable for the rest of our lives. I went to a private school, was given help buying my first home. And have a comfortable life.

i Know I’m lucky and I know it must feel terribly unfair.

that said I lost my grandparents young that’s why my family are well off..I’d rather of had thne longer.

I lost a parent young that’s why I inherited money. I’d rather have them instead.

I don’t have kids and I don’t have a partner I’d rather have them….

my sibling is ill and money can help keep them in a home but can’t heal then.

Money isn’t everything… it won’t keep me company in old age.

You’ve nicely demonstrated the structural disadvantages by commenting you’ll buy advantage for your child eg private schools

They went to grammar schools. The decision to scrap them taken by the Labour party has been an unmitigated disaster. the argument that in some way it scars those who failed the 11+ completely ignores the fact that hundreds of kids from poor backgrounds lost a massive opportunity to lift themselves and their future generations out of poverty. The needs of the offended few were louder than of those like me who benefitted from this. Look at the educational attainments in those countries that have streaming of some sort. we will continue to fall further behind and the gap will widen until we bring in a grammar school in every area.

This is just how life is. There will always be privileged people and there will always be those who are not. I think that opportunity is very important for those from less privileged backgrounds.

I came from a very poor family so I understand. Though I am very grateful for what I have. It is what has been destined for me and I am grateful for many beautiful things in my life. Money doesn't bring you happiness.

working class mentality

Almost the entire middle class is made up of people from working class famies whose "mentality" was to* *improve their lot in life and, more importantly, the lot of their children and who had the opportunity to do so. Crab-bucket thinking isn't class based.

It’s a myth that grammar schools life the working classes , grammar school is free good quality education for the middle class many who would otherwise have gone private

It’s a myth that grammar schools lift the working classes , grammar school is free good quality education for the middle class many who would otherwise have gone private

YANBU op. What I will say is that YOU are living in the now. Don’t judge yourself by your past- you have survived, despite the odds. Don’t shame yourself into low self esteem; if you measured success by resilience and how much you’ve achieved from the starting point, you’d see how much of a success you are and actually many people born with a silver spoon wouldn’t measure up very well at all. Try and reframe your thinking on that and appreciate all you have done despite hard circumstances. Wishing you lots of luck going forward xxx

Will also add that the current government do not give a shit about working people, parents, mums especially. I cannot wait for the next GE and I hope we won’t see a Tory government for a very very very long time. Literally no good has come from a conservative government over the last 13 years for almost every person who holds British nationality. Xo

What about thinking of living more broadly - and while you are at it having more compassion for yourself. You could be a house sitter any where in the world. You could go and do a year or two volunteering with a charity. You could set up your own cleaning, dog walking or similar business. You could work on cruise ships, live in a commune or anything else a bit more unusual. Perhaps you will want to retrain but make what’s next a project and go from there. One choice often leads to the next and before you know it there is a better plan.

I know, I come from a close supportive family as do the DS's friends. I ask after their friends when I bump into their mum's at the shops etc and how they're getting on at uni. Some of the mums have been surprised to hear that their kind and supportive behaviour (normal parent stuff to me) is considered very unusual by their son's very wealthy (went to boarding school etc) flat mates. We're talking normal stuff like travelling to see your student child if they are ill enough to be in hospital in their university city. Sending them a food parcel when they're not well, little treats through the post etc. Facetiming them every week or more if thy're not well. The boarding school kids laugh at that kind of parental behaviour and see it as "babying". To them, it's standard to take yourself off to hospital in a taxi on your own if you have appendicitis, then get yourself home again afterwards. No food parcels, no visits from parents during term time. Just totally different. I don't understand it, they don't win any prizes for being more "resilient". I just think it's sad that they don't seem to have anyone who cares for their wellbeing.