To think the rich/poor divide is so unfair

[Mooshamoo]

I know people who were born into lovely comfortable families.

These people had enough money. They also had two supportive caring parents. No worries or stres at all..Every one of those people went on to college, and went on to have really good jobs. They have a good social life, they get to socialise with people who also came from comfortable families.

I came from a troubled family. My father abandoned us. Which left us in poverty. So we had no money. I also had no emotional support whatsoever. My mother was an emotional mess and couldn't cope on her own with anything, I basically had to be her mother from a very young age. I had a lot of emotional worries and stress. As a young woman, early twenties, I remembered seeing other young women enjoy nights out. I never got to have anything like that as I was just struggling to survive.

I didn't have support to achieve anything in my life, and I ended up in dead end jobs and I still now don't have a lot of money, I don't have good relationships. I don't have great friendships, as I find the rich affluemt comfortable people don't want to socialise with me. I remember one person saying to me "oh is that a shitty little job that you do".

And if I socialise with people from a similar troubled background to myself, these peollw have so many problems of their own, that these never turn out to be good healthy friendships for me. We just add to each others problems. For example we will sit with each other and one person will say "I lived in foster care and it was horrendous, the family were abusive" I will say "one time i lived in emergency accommodation as a young woman and it was awful". Our lives were so bad that to be around each other, we just make each other sadder and worse.

It just feels like being trapped in a cycle of poverty and suffering that's not fair and there is no way out.

It's luck of birth.

I'm not sure it's the poverty per se, but the emotional stuff you've had to deal with that went with it. I was in a very similar poverty boat growing up. There seem to be people out there who grow up in poverty but are able to get past it and when you dig a little deeper, they had emotional support and access to opportunities even though the family were poor. Coming from a family who suffer from poverty of ambition and poverty of imagination as well as poverty of cold hard cash, even though just having no money was a complete nightmare in and of itself., can be very hard to get past. You don't have any firm ground to stand on. Fake it til you make it is all well and good, but that attitude can be easily derailed with a background like the one you're describing.

But, as others have pointed out, you do have agency and can take steps to change things. Jettisoning the past instead of dragging it around with you like Marley's chains might help you move forward, with the help of some counselling. I'm about to start on a similar path myself. Wishing you the best of luck.

This is why I believe in Grammar schools . I grew up on a large council estate and I saw what happened to the kids that went to Grammar schools . Most went on to have professional careers . Education is so important. Without at least Five good GCSE's that include Maths and English you can kiss goodbye a decent job unless you know the right people. Yes there are exceptions to the rule .

Your last sentence is the key. It wasn’t that I had the confidence to change my life, it was that no one else was going to do it for me so I HAD to.

OP, if you don’t believe you can have a successful life (however you choose to measure success) then no one else will and it simply won’t happen.

Don't wish to be harsh OP but the only one that can change things is you . No one else is going to. If you can't change certain things you just have to make the most of what you have . Look after yourself because no one else is going to . I wish you luck and happiness but ultimately you will have to make it . I learned the hard way .

Is there anything that you have enjoyed doing since a young age ?

Absolutely. I am privately educated and a LOT of my friends came from very unstable backgrounds with lots of trauma. Wealth is not a panacea.

I haven't read the full thread, but if you are in Ireland, have you looked into courses available through Springboard? They are free for those on jobseekers, or a nominal payment for most others in employment.

Agree OP it's utterly unfair and unacceptable that society is structured to perpetuate this.
Why is it that people who are comfortable are not unanimously in agreement about the unfairness of it? How can the wealthy complain about taxes to support those who struggle so much with life's basics? Baffling. I find greed and pulling the ladder up behind yourself disgusting. This government fleecing taxes for their own personal greed is criminal

luck of birth is unfair. Some people have opportunities others don’t.

But I think the type of parents we have are the biggest lottery. I grew up like you. Poor, mum had mental health issues. Mum would go to bed when me and dbro did because she could afford to heat the house. We would often sleep all together to keep warm. She went without meals. We often had time where there wasn’t a meal at all.

I was determined my kids wouldn’t grow up the same. That included making the decision to leave the kids Dad when he had a mental breakdown and got us into a load of debt.

I didn’t get the chance to travel abroad and work. That’s a great opportunity and learning experience you had. I couldn’t go to uni. I needed to work.

There’s been luck along the way. I had an incredible boss for 3 years who really mentored me and spurred my career on. But on the other hand, he managed other people and would have mentored and they didn’t take the opportunity. So partially luck. But partially that I took opportunities given. I still have imposter syndrome now.

I have worked hard. That doesn’t mean many people work hard and don’t get where I have, they do. Dp works very hard but earn less than me. That doesn’t mean I don’t also work hard. I went to therapy. I put in the work.

But what spurs me on is what to want to give my kids. Dd is at uni, she has a job. But I also give her money so she can study and not have to work as many hours as she can. She can enjoy uni, but it’s not just handed to her. I made sure she had that opportunity if she wanted it. And will do the same for ds.

Having a crap start is crap. But nothing changes if we don’t start changing it. And yes you have time to still change your life at 39. But you have to do it. No one does it for you.

Life is unfair.

I will say though that I grew up in poverty. Drug addict father, emotionally unavailable mother who I've not been on speaking terms since 19. She made me leave home at 18.

No support with education and remember being in the last year of high school and everyone talking about college. I genuinely remember thinking 'how come I've not got a college place like everyone else'. It's because we hadn't been to any open evenings and hadn't applied!

I struggled for years through my early twenties in crap jobs and did some temporary work. It was there one of the bosses (accountant) saw something in me and took me under their wing. I then went on to do accountancy qualifications (paid for by work) and I found my way out of my rut.

This was through hard work and dedication and most importantly turning up, not just physically but mentally.

I now do well for myself and have met a wonderful man and we have a great, comfortable life together.

Life is a combination of chance, luck, hard work, stress, doing things you don't like, doing things you do like, privilege, confidence. It's a real rollercoaster. Some people have the tools to ride it, some people don't.

@Farmageddon I'm not working.

You asked "do I have a degree previously"

Yes. That is another big mistake that I made. I can't blame anyone else for that one, I made a really stupid decision there that I regret and has impacted my working life. It's a big regret of mine.

For UK people, In Ireland you get points in your school leaving cert. You need higher points for better college courses.

i didn't get very high points in my leaving cert and I was eligible for only some degree courses. I didnt know what to do and again I had a very bad lack of confidence at the time. There was an institute near me at the time.

I did a degree when I was 18 in an institute near me, the degree was really not worth anything. I didn't choose well. But also they shouldn't have been running those vague degreea. I don't even know why they were running it. It was one of those degree courses that are very vague and don't qualify you for anything at all.

Its a big big regret of mine. I chose completely the wrong college course. I didn't think it through at 18, or how much it would impact my working life. You need to choose wisely. You need to choose the right degree if you do one. I should have chose much better. I never got any job related to it. And neither did anyone else that did the course
With me
That was a huge mistake that I made that impacted my career life.

I want to go back and study something that would actually lead to a career like teaching nursing, but I don't qualify for any free fees now.

My parents were fairly well off , but they sucked as parent. While I was never hungry or cold or whatever I had abuse and neglect so I was a total fuck up .

We're nowhere near as well off, DD doesn't have all the opportunities or comforts she should (1 bed flat for example ) but she is loved ,supported,secured and encouraged to do well and be the best person she can be. As a result , she's already achieved 10 times more than I ever did and she's a much better kid than I ever was. That might change in the future, but I hope she always feels loved and safe at least.

Yep, OP my childhood and life has been similar.

You’ll always get some tosser making you feel worse though by telling you you should have worked harder! You should work harder now!

They have no idea what it’s like and how it shapes you to grow up in crap circumstances. All my resilience was depleted by young adolescence, life from a young age was just about getting though that day. I didn’t have the energy or brain space to think about the future or have goals or hopes.

OP, I told you this on another one of your threads and you bit my head off, but it bears repeating:

You really, really, really would benefit from therapy to help you with your childhood trauma and your self-esteem. If you want to turn your life around, and you're of course still young enough to do it at 39, therapy would be a great place to start to remove those harmful core beliefs about yourself.

My parents were born into council estate lives. Not abusive or those sorts of hardships, but poverty.
Rather than socialise, they'd hit the books, rather than waste time they decided to work.

They're both now educated and earn well.

I think 'many' choose a life of poverty because many chose a life of fun, drinking, socialising and prioritised this over education and hard work.

Not all, but most...

You don't know that other people (whatever their background) have "no worries or stress at all".

@Mooshamoo

Links below

it is not too late to make dramatic changes

commit to getting into education - links below - this can be being a student or studying while you work

All the stuff about you doubting yourself - you can only fix it by doing it - so focus I getting things moving. You are clearly very bright. Once you are in education you will have access to counselling services, but primarily you just have to do it.

also go to your library and borrow copies of overcoming low self esteem and feel the fear and do it anyway

Go to this site and it tells you about grants and how to keep your benefits - you need to talk to specialists about this, not the job centre, but it looks possible to me

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third-level-education/fees-and-supports-for-third-level-education/grants-for-mature-students/#:~:text=You%20can%20make%20a%20student,applying%20for%20a%20college%20place.

If you need advice talk to this lot
www.maturestudents.ie/

More references here
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/third-level-education/fees-and-supports-for-third-level-education/grants-for-mature-students/#:~:text=You%20can%20make%20a%20student,applying%20for%20a%20college%20place.

https://www.creditunion.ie/blog/mature-student-grants-and-supports/

Some people are born more privileged than others but you can break the cycle.

do you have children? If so how are you helping them not get into the same position as you?

There are several jobs where you don’t need any initial qualifications and can work your way up.

look at working for a big international organisation they will often pay for people’s qualifications if you are good enough at your job.

at 39 you still have almost 30 years of work
ahead of you. You can absolutely turn things round for yourself

Thanks for the advice everyone

I don't have children @wolfpa

You think that on the basis if no evidence whatsoever. No the mothers raising their children beneath the poverty line did not end up in this situation due to excessive partying.

What a stupid and unpleasant person you are

I agree with this. OP you need to try and reframe your thinking, you are in a spiral of negative thought and blaming yourself for past decisions (like chosing a certain college course at 18). You can makes changes in your life, but you need to change your thinking first.
Also, it appears you own a house outright, with no mortgage - that's an enviable position to be in. You don't have rent to pay so you could take a few chances with work.
You did say in a thread a few days ago that you were working in customer service, so I'm not sure what happened, but Back to Education Allowance won't be paid for someone who is just on jobseekers, you have to wait a few months. You could look into courses in the mean time.

@Flickersy you said I would benefit from therapy . Respectfully I disagree. Back when I was working and I had more money and I could afford therapy (very expensive), I did try therapy for a while.

The first female therapist burst into tears and cried when I talked about my childhood.

I changed therapist. The second male therapist sighed and said "that's a lot of work for me" when I talked about my childhood. I felt worse after I went to be honest

Thanks guys for the advice and also for some of the inspirational stories of getting yourself out of poverty.

It would only be unfair that some people have hopeless parents if babies were randomly delivered to people by storks.

It's impossible that you personally would exist, without the parents you actually had, no other parents were possible. You just need to play the best you can, with the hand you are dealt.

Or perhaps all babies should be taken away from their parents and raised communally in exactly the same circumstances?