To think the rich/poor divide is so unfair

[Mooshamoo]

I know people who were born into lovely comfortable families.

These people had enough money. They also had two supportive caring parents. No worries or stres at all..Every one of those people went on to college, and went on to have really good jobs. They have a good social life, they get to socialise with people who also came from comfortable families.

I came from a troubled family. My father abandoned us. Which left us in poverty. So we had no money. I also had no emotional support whatsoever. My mother was an emotional mess and couldn't cope on her own with anything, I basically had to be her mother from a very young age. I had a lot of emotional worries and stress. As a young woman, early twenties, I remembered seeing other young women enjoy nights out. I never got to have anything like that as I was just struggling to survive.

I didn't have support to achieve anything in my life, and I ended up in dead end jobs and I still now don't have a lot of money, I don't have good relationships. I don't have great friendships, as I find the rich affluemt comfortable people don't want to socialise with me. I remember one person saying to me "oh is that a shitty little job that you do".

And if I socialise with people from a similar troubled background to myself, these peollw have so many problems of their own, that these never turn out to be good healthy friendships for me. We just add to each others problems. For example we will sit with each other and one person will say "I lived in foster care and it was horrendous, the family were abusive" I will say "one time i lived in emergency accommodation as a young woman and it was awful". Our lives were so bad that to be around each other, we just make each other sadder and worse.

It just feels like being trapped in a cycle of poverty and suffering that's not fair and there is no way out.

It's luck of birth.

A lot is what you choose to make of your life and how you choose to confront challenges.

I'm married to the son of a refugee. Some of the family arrived in UK in the clothes they stood up in, not speaking English or having any contacts, or money or anything. Kids were stranded in a war zone and ultimately spent years in prison camps. Arrived after the war not having seen parents for so long they didn't recognise them, traumatised and speaking neither English nor their parents mother tongue.

Within 2 years of being here both children won places at grammar schools and went to Oxford and Cambridge respectively - and whilst having not insignificant mental and physical health issues (unsurprising when you have lived your earliest years severely malnourished, under constant threat of death and in extremely traumatic circumstances - including the murder of their caregivers) they have become very successful.

When I look at what they went through and how they managed to pull themselves up to have happy, fulfilling and successful lives, then I can't see why it should not be possible for anyone to do the same. We live in a country that offers free education to all.

It is this negative thinking that is holding you back, not your upbringing in poverty.

I honestly believe there has never been more opportunities open to people as there are today. E commerce and technology allowing everyone to work from wherever they are has advanced social mobility no end.

The first step to you changing your life must be changing your negative mindset. Maybe listen to some podcasts to try and break this.

If you are poor, take advantage of your free education. Work hard and be rich.

It won't stop the shoes that gave you bunions from being too small, or the taunts about your second-hand clothes, but you can have a lot more as an adult.

Much of what you say is true, but I think your biggest barrier at the moment is you.

Do you want out enough to go after it? Have a honest look at what is stopping you- internal / external barriers.

You write a lot about what the job centre says you can’t do, but not much about what you will do to achieve what you want.

The job centre is not the best place for career development.

Would you study part-time and get a part-time job to cover what’s lost in JSA? With this you still get help with housing and council tax.

You’re already familiar with poverty, so a few more years of grinding in the vain of bettering yourself is worth it.

Some counselling would help, but if free sessions are hard to come by, join an app like Action for Happiness that offers free seminars and improving your mental health.

Do you really be;lieve everyone can, just like that? Many professional careers don't pay well. Not to mention that everyone has different levels of intelluigence, health etc etc.

Yes, it's true that your circumstances at birth impact on your life going forward. But they don't determine it. "Oh woe is me..." is never good look. I was born in a poor family, in a poor area. I have 3 degrees, a professional and well paid role, friends from all walks of life... It isn't a perfect life, because there's no such thing. But I'm happy with it, and I accept that there have been ups and downs, and successes have sometimes come with costs.

Your birth may present certain odds. But you determine how you deal with those and change them.

Quite separately, yes, there is a huge gap between the rich and the poor. That ought not to be the case, and society could be organised differently. To do that collective change is required, and a will to do it. That will is not there. So pull yourself up or not, that's your only choice.

I was born poor. My mum didn't work, my dad was a research scientist, and I had 3 siblings. We had very little money. Free school meals, no central heating, black and white TV handed down from a relative. Tea after school was a single slice of cheese on toast.

What we did have was a literate childhood. We went to the library a lot and had books and comics picked up at jumble sales (my mum was brilliant at jumble sale shopping. Almost every present and item of clothing came from a jumble sale. They don't seem to be a thing any more. Killed by eBay and vinted I expect).

We also had cheaper university. We got a full grant (I remember mine being 750 a term) and a loan but no tuition fees. My parents paid nothing in addition to this. I had to buy my own clothes, toiletries etc, pay my rent, pay my transport home. I paid for my own driving lessons by working at a pub evenings and weekends. Financially, my parents stopped being responsible for me after I turned 18. I thought it was normal at the time but now I think it was a bit weird to have a 20 year old living at home in the holidays, learning to drive and once or twice my Mum subbed me for lessons but I had to pay her back. She didn't provide the sort of financial safety net that I definitely provide my kids.

Anyway, long story short, I think poverty doesn't help but support, attitude, aspiration, family culture are at least as important. We had nothing as kids and we all earn decent wages now, own our own homes, are professional people.

Yes, it is true. We're very lucky in this country to have excellent free education. We were poor, but I still went to university, as do my own kids. All my mum had to do was teach us to read, talk to us and make us think and take us to school. Just like me with my own kids.

Cost us nothing

You should look at the biography "Poor" by Kaitriona O Sullivan. She is an individual who came from poverty to now having a PHD. I'm sure she's on socials if you looked her up also

@Ontheperiphery79 you said growing up in poverty kept you in the cycle of poverty.

Thanks for sharing.

I think that one of the hardest things to get over is the psychological blocks. I do think if you grow up in poverty, some of us feel that we are not worth a lot and that we are not worthy or able for good careers. We haven't seen anyone around us in those careers.

I grew up feeling less than everyone else.

So even now I think:

I'm not worthy of being a nurse,
I'm not worthy of being a proper teacher.

I definitely think I'm worth very little .

I'm definitely going to do a bit of CBT on my mind and try to get myself to see that I am worth something

It's peoples psychological blocks that hold them back

. Someone suggested on here that I could do an accountancy course and I immediately thought imagine ME being an accountant. I wouldnt even have dreamed of it. That's something That's so far beyond what I think I am worth , or that i could do.

I'm going to do CBT and start on working on my mind.

OP, what do you want to do? Is it possible you could get in touch with the National Careers Service and get support/ideas from them?

Have you had counselling? I wonder if that would help you figure out how to be ‘unstuck’?

Life is unfair and poverty isn’t always understood by those who live in affluence. However, you have agency and can make changes. It doesn’t mean you haven’t got barriers in the way but you need h thy r help to get you on the track you want to follow.

I qualified in my chosen profession at 39, 15 years after most of my colleagues. Having been abandoned by my father weeks before sitting my final exams at school, I left a failure and was struggled to find work that suited my abilities for a decade.
Approaching the age that many of my long-term friends are planning a well-funded retirement, I have another fifteen or twenty years to work.
I realised the gap between us when musing to a friend that life would have been very different if I'd had a parent or relative willing and able to lend me £5,000 if I needed it. My friend replied that their dad would have lent them the money, no questions asked - but as they never borrowed it we were equal.
Good luck.

@Dweetfidilove I just honestly think I've no confidence in myself at all.

And I need to get some.

No that is not correct. We are lucky to have a great education in this country but it is not accessible by all. Young careers, SEN, health issues, volatile hosuehold situations, mental health, intellignece all factor in. What if your mum could not or would not teach you to read?

Do you imagine that just becaise yopur situation was favourable, everyone else's situation is?

OP a few days ago you said in a post that you were in a customer service role. So are you working or not?

The Back to Education Allowance is only for unemployed people, and you can only get it after a several months of being unemployed. If you applied and were rejected it may be because you haven't been on it long enough. You can appeal it I believe.

Have you done a degree previously? If not you would be eligible for free fees, although you would have to pay the 'student contribution' of about 3000 per year, although I believe if you are not earning much you can apply for a grant towards that. Look into SUSI grants and see what you are eligible for.

This is so insightful, so eloquent- I can't help thinking that both you and the OP would be very thoughtful and interesting friends to have, full of understanding and intelligent compassion. You are both very expressive writers too, who have somehow managed to educate yourselves in spite of your difficult lives.

It is so so hard to change to a positive outlook. I am a rich person with a negative and destructive self image and approach to life. I battle with it every day and am stuck in a spiral of terrible thoughts, blaming my situation and my many difficulties and losses for my current lousy life. I am also consumed with self loathing over how I have wasted the privilege of my early years.

I am so sorry, OP for the insensitivity of the rich people's comments. Horrible, and also pitiful and so stupid.

I hope you find a way to hoist yourself out. I know how hard that is, even with money and advantages in life, can hardly imagine how difficult poverty makes it for you.

The immigrant example by pp is interesting, I’m descended from mixed refugees who were scattered far and wide and there is a strongly ingrained attitude in both my parents’ cultures that education is lifelong, along with expectations around professional attainment that unconsciously drive me today. It is not at all the same sort of poverty that OP describes.

@alasar I read that book "poor"! it was great. She was a half Irish half English woman born in terrible poverty . Really bad early life.

And she continued in the same pattern all through her twenties. She was on unemployment benefit and I think some low paying jobs for all her twenties . And she had no confidence at all.

Then she eventually applied to and went to trinity college Dublin, and became a lecturer.

She said that she went in to teach a class once in the college, and a student glared at her and looked down her nose at her and said

"Eh you can't come in and clean in here now, theres a class on" and she said "yes I know, I'm the lecturer".

I understand the lack of self belief and the imposter syndrome (I have not researched this myself! Just heard it mentioned and resonated with me). Am finally at university after a lot of hard work. I do placements and all the comments at the beginning is I must improve confidence. Where does the lack of self belief come from? I always think, where do I begin to explain that?

It's so hard but please try to believe you are worth. Because you really are! Plus 39 is young. You have plenty of time. Make you entering your 4th decade the decade this all changes!!

I think CBT is a good idea as you need to change your mindset. My df died when I was a young teenager my mother was disabled and died not long after. I then got in a relationship to an extremely abusive man who I was told by SW if I didn't leave my baby could be removed. So I looked to what I could do not what I couldn't, did 2 post grads ( not at the same time!) while working full time being the sole carer of a young child. It was difficult but I did always have the belief that things would get better and they did, not overnight. You can change your life but to do so you need to believe in yourself, no one will care about you more than you care about yourself.

Read overcoming low self esteem. It’s essentially do it yourself cbt and it’s on the nhs recommended reading list

I think there’s a difference between being raised poor and being raised by irresponsible parents.
Being raised poor 100% must be an awful life but you can still have 2 loving parents and not suffer abuse. Same way you can be raised by 2 wealthy parents but never know unconditional love from them.

You’re conflating rich parents with loving and caring parents.

Agree with this

Life is uncertain and it is much more complex than just rich or poor.

Many many examples of kids from "poor" families doing ok, and those from better off families struggling when the bank of mum and dad gets withdrawn and they have no work ethic or values to fall back on.

I agree with a PP who says you're mixing two issues.

I 100% agree that there are a lot of things that are unfair in the world and I feel so sorry for those with talent and drive that are born into difficult circumstances. I also hate that we live in a civilised society where people like nurses and midwives etc are in a position to need to use foodbanks etc.

But...
It just feels like being trapped in a cycle of poverty and suffering that's not fair and there is no way out.

Whilst you need a hefty dose of luck (or at least not continued bad luck) - there are often ways out. I'm currently doing trauma counselling for a bunch of stuff from my childhood. I had a crappy time of it but got lucky and moved to live with my stepfather and grandmother aged 11 and then met DH at the age of 16. If I hadn't met him I honestly wouldn't still be here and he's kept me on the straight and narrow ever since. Now I'm in a highly successful career, two beautiful kids and a wonderful DH in a happy marriage. But I've got a tonne of baggage which I'm working through from childhood. I was still very privileged in some respects, always had a roof over my head and was fed and clothed. But I have experienced loan sharks at the front door, hiding behind the sofa and being told to remain silent so they couldn't see us through the window, child abuse, domestic abuse, seeing a parent self-harming etc.

It's certainly possible that you don't have the correct role models around you right now, or at the very least don't realise you do. By the sounds of what you've written your role models are either 'like you' and also 'stuck where they are' or they're 'not like you' and they're 'successful'. When I look around I don't tend to see women 'like me', ie. that I identify with, in positions of power. But I intend to be that woman and increase the diversity of thought/background through doing it.

In the meantime:

• You can do self-help courses around motivation, public speaking, the art of being persuasive etc. Disadvantaged backgrounds tend to be limited by emotional intelligence, self-awareness and an understanding of how to present yourself in a way that will be well perceived. All of these are skills that can be learnt and that honestly end up making the most difference in terms of making positive changes than most qualifications do. You are an adult and have access to the internet, so you have access to everything you need to change your circumstances.
• You can go for a promotion at work
• You can do additional qualifications (if you need them to access a particular job)
• You can look at the lateral moves that help you to progress towards where you'd be happier
• You can get yourself waitlisted for counselling/CBT which may help start to work through your issues

I grew up in difficult circumstances, stepfather was an alcoholic and my Mother probably was as well. A very violent household. I left my hometown and got an education. I get what you mean about the psychological blocks my siblings remain in that cycle. I pulled away from my family. I didn’t go full NC or make any sort of declaration I just lived hundreds of miles away. DH reckons that as I had a different Father his genetics gave me the boost, well it’s the eternal nature versus nature debate so who knows. I ended up working in higher education for close to 30 years and have had a very different life to my siblings. I had some therapy in my late twenties and that most definitely helped. I could have gone down the road my sisters did but I had a Saturday job in a public library when I was in sixth form and they showed me a very different world. I also had a very inspirational teacher, he told us every single person had something they could give to the world, they just needed to find out what it is, lovely man. He must be dead by now as I’m close to 60 but I would love to have shaken his hand and thanked him.

Children need role models, mine were just not from within my family.