To think the rich/poor divide is so unfair

[Mooshamoo]

I know people who were born into lovely comfortable families.

These people had enough money. They also had two supportive caring parents. No worries or stres at all..Every one of those people went on to college, and went on to have really good jobs. They have a good social life, they get to socialise with people who also came from comfortable families.

I came from a troubled family. My father abandoned us. Which left us in poverty. So we had no money. I also had no emotional support whatsoever. My mother was an emotional mess and couldn't cope on her own with anything, I basically had to be her mother from a very young age. I had a lot of emotional worries and stress. As a young woman, early twenties, I remembered seeing other young women enjoy nights out. I never got to have anything like that as I was just struggling to survive.

I didn't have support to achieve anything in my life, and I ended up in dead end jobs and I still now don't have a lot of money, I don't have good relationships. I don't have great friendships, as I find the rich affluemt comfortable people don't want to socialise with me. I remember one person saying to me "oh is that a shitty little job that you do".

And if I socialise with people from a similar troubled background to myself, these peollw have so many problems of their own, that these never turn out to be good healthy friendships for me. We just add to each others problems. For example we will sit with each other and one person will say "I lived in foster care and it was horrendous, the family were abusive" I will say "one time i lived in emergency accommodation as a young woman and it was awful". Our lives were so bad that to be around each other, we just make each other sadder and worse.

It just feels like being trapped in a cycle of poverty and suffering that's not fair and there is no way out.

It's luck of birth.

Those of you who have overcome ACE and adversity, you must see you’re the exception. It is not universal to beat adversity and progress to being solvent and happy. For every lucky person who got out and up there are literally hundreds/thousands who didn’t. It’s a real shame posters cannot see beyond anecdotes and instead of being angry at the individual be angry at a society that looks the other way and believes hard work and pluckiness is enough. Get angry at institutional barriers and wealth protection rather than braying that the poor and disadvantaged should work harder

@limepi he had privilege in that he is not sleeping out on the road and he has just about enough money to survive yes.

But no I don't think my brother has much privilege, seeing as he has attempted suicide about five times, and he has been in and out of psychiatric hospitals for a long time of his life.
Every time I see him he tells me he doesn't want to live. I know he doesn't want to live. I know that his life is unbearable for him because of all the trauma he went through as a child. He doesn't want to live and every day is unbearable for him . The last time I saw him, he told me that he is going to try to not attempt suicide again , for my sake. That he is going to try to stay alive for my sake. As I have been through so much trauma already.

@Zone2NorthLondon yes IME you can go one of two ways from a traumatic upbringing - either propel yourself out by being a high achiever, or looking inward and going on a downward spiral. Like me and my own siblings. I've struggled a lot with the latter (MH issues) whilst my brother is your high achiever type who looks down his nose at anyone who hasn't done as well for themselves in their life.

That being the case, you will more aware than most that trauma, and specifically the impact of trauma, is not a choice at all. That c-ptsd for example, isn’t something you can choose not to suffer with and that “picking yourself up” isn’t always a solution to the wider impact of trauma. The poster you are responding to has outlined perfectly why. Functioning and achieving the basics in a typical day is as far as some people have capacity for as a result of their ACES. It’s great that you’ve been able to recover to a point where your capacity and functioning are higher, but surely you understand that it’s not that simple for everyone? Most fellow ACE survivors I’ve interacted with have shown a lot more compassion and empathy, regardless of their own successes in overcoming adversity.

We also should remember that anyone with trauma who isn't outwardly necessarily showing all the signs of worldly success is generally always trying to pick themselves up, every single day I do my best to "better myself", improve my situation etc etc. It's hard work because my MH beats me up and sends me back the other way. So i will pick myself up again on a daily basis. I am always trying, striving, aiming high. Just seem to get knocked back on a frequent basis.

@Princessandthepea0 choices aren't made in a vacuum. That was my real point, not "getting angry at people on the internet ".

I didn't choose to have a breakdown at Uni, I didn't choose to have all my other qualifications burned with no way to getting them again, I didn't chose to not be able to leave the house except in very strict circumstances, I didn't choose to be sexually assaulted in my first job after which set me back enormously, I didn't choose to have panic attacks every time I filled in my CV because it looked so fucking pathetic, I don't choose the way my brain reacts due to all the past trauma .

I'm actually just about ok now, own (a small ,shitty flat), have a (low paid,but stable ) job, a family. I'll never be a powerhouse or traditionally successful. Mainly because I can't cope with everything that comes with it.

I was strong enough to stay alive(when I desperately wanted not to be). I was strong enough to start over again and again. I was strong enough to move countries. I was strong enough to put one foot in front of the other (just like OP is).But I have my limits and those aren't by choice.

Free education ?

LOL is this one of those things that rich people believe poor people get ?

No wonder you effing hate us povs for not doing better.

Oh I also managed to not have a complete empathy bypass and the emotional intelligence of a rock so maybe I do deserve that cookie.

Of course it's free. No child has to pay for their education here in the UK.

Exactly this.

People don't understand what true disability from mental torture is and barely being able to function due to shifting states and capacity.

All this talk of 'well my uncle started a lemonade stand and now he's president of the USA' bollox is just capitalist patriarchal thinking.

This person needs a bit of kindness, a bit of gentleness, to learn how to self care, to learn how to release the pain of the past and tolerate the trauma that will never leave because it can never leave because it's the truth of their origin. That's possible, I know as I've done it somewhat - I've done work on it and paid therapists and studied free resources and websites and read books (because I had capacity to do so when I did that, some people don't).

Then we make tiny inrodes into life on our terms on the terms we can cope with, in ways that we feel safe enough to do so. Once a little routine of self care and feeling just OK enough is established, that's where things can move outwards.

OP it's going to take time and very tiny little tolerable gentle changes. Take your focus off what you haven't got and what other's have got, that's redundant and it's not making any difference.

YANBU I was just reading a post from somebody with a v healthy budget trying to decide which town in Sussex to move to. So many were telling her not to move to a (perfectly respectable imo!) seaside town because ‘there’s poverty there’. The divide is real, many wealthy people do not want to be anywhere near poor people, and would rather stick their fingers in their ears while continuing to insist that the ‘divide’ is simply an excuse made up by these lazy people who don’t want to work hard like they do.

YANBU - it is very unfair

However you should also recognise that you are very fortunate to have been born in a first world country, with free education, healthcare and social security.

You may be poor by UK standards but on a global scale you would be considered rich and very fortunate. Imagine being born into war torn poverty?

I also grew up in poverty, with a single parent, lots of problems etc. However, I recognised as a young teenager that only I could change my future. I started to work hard at school, got scholarships for higher education etc, and now I'm a higher earner with my own home, and middle class lifestyle.

All my friends are middle class, had privileged upbringings and will never understand how different it was for me, and how much harder I had to work to get to their level. However, it is possible.

But the OP is an adult now! What's she gonna do, go back to infant school? (Altho frankly that sounds marvellous!)

Also some of us weren't able to gain full advantage from that free education due to the horrors of what was going on at home (if we indeed had a roof over our head).

My husband was born into similar circumstances as yourself. I have known him since he was 17 and he has always worked at least two jobs. Helping his mother and his younger siblings and also saving enough money to start his own successful business. I do believe it made him the strive to be successful. Its a difficult one however he has done much better than anybody I know who had a more privileged upbringing.

@MidnightMeltdown

OP is not in the UK. She's said that a few times now.

Yes it's free.

Hopefully the parents have got life together enough to get you there each day aged 4. Children with 80% attendance are missing a day a week. Not uncommon for some parents too hungover or tired to get themselves awake for 8.45am drop off of their child.

Assuming that your parents knew/were able/cared enough to fill in the application form of course.

If you have illiterate parents, never read to each night, don't know what a book is, haven't been spoken to in full sentences then you are at a massive disadvantage when you begin school and are already fighting against a strong tide.

Aged 4.

I'll say it again, damn the Tories.

And damn attitudes like yours that reduce such a complex issue down to "Education is free. Take advantage of it"

Original post doesn't say that. You can't expect people to read a 200+ post thread before replying!

In any case, it doesn't sound as though she's from a third world country.

@MidnightMeltdown no I'm not in a third world country, I'm in R of Ireland.

However some of the points in your post are U.K. specific and dont apply to me.

You said "I'm lucky to have free healthcare".

We don't have free healthcare in Ireland. It costs 70 euro to see the doctor. Medication is v expensive .

So, what is it we are complaining about here:

1. Is it the disparity in UK provision to the less well off?
2. Is it whether education is a great leveller?
3. is it whether having neglectful parents, impacts your access to services and sets you up for a permanently poor lifestyle?

1 and 3, no one can do anything about. But at least 2 gives you some hope of escaping.

You don't have to read 200+ posts.

Just be courteous enough to read the OP's own posts.

@CinnamonJellyBeans free doesn't mean accessible for everyone.

Up to a certain age (if local)children rely on their parents to even get to school. That's the most basic of things , being there. That doesn't happen for everyone. Then it's being there in/with the correct kit. At primary that can simply mean being cold,in pain,uncomfortable, but at secondary it can mean detention and getting in trouble and missing out even more plus the stress of knowing it's going to happen and there's fuck all you can do about it. Then you need to be in the right frame of mind to actually be able to learn while in school. Fat chance of that when you're falling asleep at your desk , or trying to hide bruises, or being hungry, or being traumatised and terrified,or being dragged back down to their parents drama/drug use/chaotic lifestyle.Even less so if you have medical/SEN needs that are being neglected at home. Then there's homework,extra reading etc. again, some children up to a certain age have fuck all chance of that ever happening. You wouldn't believe the massive gaps that are heartbreakingly obvious at ages as young as 6/7. Then we get to secondaries with ridiculously priced uniforms and various "necessary " kits that guess what? Cost money. By the time some of these children have the ability to take charge of their education themselves, they're either too far behind or so broken and exhausted from living like that that it's nearly impossible to close the gap enough to even have an ok standard of living, much less be a"pull yourself by the bootstraps " success billionaire story.

If you'd meet some of the kids I work with... abused,neglected,abandoned (again and again), traumatised etc. you'd see how pointless sound bites like "free education " are.

I’ve read the thread.

op your dad is a twat and so are his family. You should not give two shiny shits what they think about you.

No child is bad, it doesn’t work that way. You are stuck thinking things that aren’t true about yourself, probably exacerbated by your brother also feeling the same. Google some stuff about parenting your inner child and have a go at healing your trauma. Speak to the Samaritans, find a charity that offers counselling and get on a waiting list. Your previous experience of counselling is not usual, give it another go for your own sake.

It doesn’t matter what your degree is in, find some career support and get an entry level role in something that has legs. You may never feel like you deserve to be an accountant/ teacher/ astronaut even whilst you are doing those things. But don’t let that stop you. Find out about imposter syndrome.

Finally, a lot of people like yourself who are now outwardly successful will not let on. Very few people see past my breezy middle class exterior and for good reason, but you can’t compare your inside to my outside. You might do better to assume everyone is just getting through the day with their baggage than assuming everyone is living some shiny life that you can’t have because of your start in life.

Best of luck 😊

Like I said, if it's your only hope of escape, you have to grab it with two hands, like we did.

As well, attending school in a deprived area where most of the other girls aspire to be hairdressers or beauty therapists and drop out at 16 can influence how seriously you take school. In my case, I had a fallout in my friend group close to exams and couldn’t stand going in. I also wanted to work and just naively thought I’ll go to college later. Children in these situations can do well but it helps to have a parental support, expectations and guidance

But there will always be people who will gamble or piss it up the wall . Yet some people can make a little money go a long way . I think having loving caring positive parents is a huge advantage no matter what financial situation you are born into