Getting a dressing down at work in front of others. Ok or not?

[rolsete]

I'd love to hear thoughts from others on this. I recently moved into an alternative NHS department to increase my skill set. For context, on the job description for my own job and this department also, 'the ability to cope with an often hostile and challenging workplace' is listed on the job description.

There is a lot of sickness in the department which, on the face of it, looks like it results from mental health issues. Perhaps these particular employees aren't able to cope ALL the time with the 'hostile' environment, but manage to the majority of the time.

The person in charge raises their voices and 'dresses down' employees who make mistakes in front of a room full of staff (minimum 6+ at any one time). Often these seem to be fairly minor mistakes, and to be honest to be expected since we are all human and some staff have minimal experience and are on the lower pay bands.

Some people seem to be targeted over every mistake. Others who are really experienced and so obviously don't make many mistakes, can make a really significant whopper but aren't pulled up on it by said manager. Also, the really experienced person who made significant whopper is the first to shout at others (who are human, inexperienced and lack training) even though they have shown themselves that they aren't perfect either.

AIBU to think that when providing feedback and pulling people up on errors it can still be done in a respectful, polite way? Is it ok to speak as loudly as you can so that everyone within 20 feet can hear? Is it ok to shout at people at work, instead of conveying the same information at a regular volume? Are they just doing it so that others don't make the same errors? It feels really humiliating and shameful for the person on the receiving end.

Genuinely just trying to get my head round the department I'm in.

Someone needs to raise a grievance to HR. I used to work with a colleague who did this and it was “just the way he is”. He would shout, have temper tantrums, and regularly have his employees in tears, but no one wanted to raise a grievance against him. In the end even though I was never on the receiving end directly as I wasn’t in his team I put in an official complaint as it was horrible to see the effect he was having on people and to have people in tear to me about him. This gave them all they needed to start an investigation and gather the witness statements they needed for formal action

I knew this was the NHS. Sadly this type of working environment isn't uncommon. From my experience its really hard to be the person who says this is unacceptable and the personal impact can be devastating. So many policies and unions and Hr but this behaviour still continues. Sorry your in this position

My friend took a job like this knowing the 'boss' was a nightmare but it was an opportunity to work in a really specific area that was a growing industry and his plan was to just tolerate if for 1 year then leave. Female boss, male friend FWIW. She would shout, scream and occasionally throw things at him. Abusive emails 24 hours a day even on days off. Despite going in with eyes open with an exit plan, it still massively took a toll on him mentally and physically. It was actually disturbing to witness. There is absolutely no excuse for this type of bullying in a workplace.

Tell me you work in a surgical specialty without telling me you work in a surgical speciality.

It's neither acceptable nor professional to be giving staff a dressing down in front of others.
I used to be a department manager and any reprimands were given in private behind closed doors. The employee also had right of reply so I could better understand how the situation arose.
Also I didn't shout as this gives the appearance of the manager losing control and one thing you need to be as a manager is approachable, otherwise you don't gain the trust of your employees.
OP, I think your manager needs some management training. If I was you I would be looking for a transfer.

Not the point of the post but I’m interested in how these mistakes affect patients, ‘significant whoppers’ does not sound good. Neither does the frequency of mistakes you allude to in your post.

What an absolute state the NHS is in.

Unfortunately it's an attitude that's runs rife across the public sector. I was once a victim of it myself. The amount of bullying going on is frankly disgusting.😡

None of the mistakes directly affect patient care. They affect patient waiting times though, but not significantly. The 'whopper' I refer to was forgetting to do something which meant colleagues had to do it instead. So no patient harmed, but colleagues had to cover. A bit like me just forgetting to turn up for my shift on a weekend. Lower staff members would get bollocked for anything like that but this person didn't.

This is not theatres/nursing.

Absolutely this.

Uion or raise it with your next in line. The employer has a duty of care here. Bullying in the workplace is really bad for mental health.

Bullying behaviour like this is treated as a performance management issue where I work, managers can't get away with it.

I had an nhs boss like this once. They did finally get sacked for bullying but it took years and a lot of complaints from numerous people.

As others has said this behaviour actually causes people to make more mistakes and leads to worse performance. It may not directly affect patient care in your department but it still worth watching the above Ted Talk.

Never OK. Should always be done in private (witnesses, if asked for, are OK) but never in front of work colleagues generally. Grossly unprofessional.

Shit line manager. HR/higher management have heads in the sand hoping no one will kick up a stink. Do you feel you can face blowing the whistle on this, OP? Sounds like you'd be doing everyone a favour.

They may be experienced but they are running a department which will see an increased number of incidents and most likely a loss of staff owing to poor management.
In my organisation something would be done, yes. There are numerous ways in which this kind of thing can be addressed which doesn't involve someone being told off or losing their job. The aim is to keep people in their jobs and functioning well, doing an effective job.
Freedom to speak up advisors would be a good place to start, as suggested by a past poster

Of course it can be frustrating and annoying when you're under pressure.

That doesn't make it any less than totally unacceptable and unprofessional behaviour in clear breach of multiple employment laws and professional standards, though.

I have been quite a senior manager in a settling like you describe (think secure in-patient MH with lots of incidents) and HELL NO this isn’t acceptable. It’s something to whistleblow, within the Trust and also CQC (this is a Well Led issue). Check the Dignity at Work policy so you can factually refer to how this manager is fostering a deeply unhealthy culture. I feel for the patients because they are defenceless against high turnover and burnout in the people meant to be caring for them. Best of luck and don’t let it break you or forget why you wanted the role in the first place xx

You could be describing any number of wards/units within the health board I used to work in. Unfortunately many senior charge nurses think it's acceptable to behave this way.

So glad I'm completely out of that toxic organisation.

It's unacceptable and worthy of taking out a grievance. As a HR Professional, I would agree it's a legitimate complaint, unlike a lot of ones we receive.

I wouldn't stand for it.

Your hospital should have a 'freedom to speak up' team. They would be best placed to have a chat with

I work in operating theatres and came here to say this exact thing.
its a nasty, toxic and hostile environment to work in

This ^

Sounds like a horrible working environment. Two golden rules ( and I've managed teams for over 30 years)

1. If you someone does something wrong or bad they have to be told but it happens behind closed . If what they've done (or not done ) involves on or more other staff members they get reassured separately it has been dealt with
2. Treat everyone the same but tactfully

They’re not all like this. Mine isn’t.

Granted, there are plenty of strong characters, but these are needed when you have to stand up to a consultant in the best interests of a patient or to get things done in an emergency where you may only have seconds to save a life.

However, where I work, it is never used in a hostile way towards colleagues etc. If there is an issue, it is dealt with professionally and in a healthy manner.

@rolsete if you feel able, please take this further. I’m sure higher management must already be aware that there is a problem. Push them to sort it out.

Absolutely none of that behaviour is acceptable! The correct way to address errors is privately and treated like a learning opportunity in the first instance. If the rest of the staff need to advised of correct process it should be done separately when the collegue in question is not humiliated..

Personally I would speak to said manager advise you do not appreciate being humiliated in front of the rest of the staff and that if there are any other issues you would appreciate being spoken to separately in a respectful manner.

From then make a note of all instances and report to the union..that is a toxic work environment and can't be allowed to continue, I would say majority of SL is due to this manager - I mean why would you want to add more stress to an already stressful job staff members should be getting all the support they can.

I hate this! Absolutely not ok and management should know better, seems they need training on supervision and managing other people as well as how to create a supportive working environment where they can promote the development and learning of others in a more positive way