Getting a dressing down at work in front of others. Ok or not?

[rolsete]

I'd love to hear thoughts from others on this. I recently moved into an alternative NHS department to increase my skill set. For context, on the job description for my own job and this department also, 'the ability to cope with an often hostile and challenging workplace' is listed on the job description.

There is a lot of sickness in the department which, on the face of it, looks like it results from mental health issues. Perhaps these particular employees aren't able to cope ALL the time with the 'hostile' environment, but manage to the majority of the time.

The person in charge raises their voices and 'dresses down' employees who make mistakes in front of a room full of staff (minimum 6+ at any one time). Often these seem to be fairly minor mistakes, and to be honest to be expected since we are all human and some staff have minimal experience and are on the lower pay bands.

Some people seem to be targeted over every mistake. Others who are really experienced and so obviously don't make many mistakes, can make a really significant whopper but aren't pulled up on it by said manager. Also, the really experienced person who made significant whopper is the first to shout at others (who are human, inexperienced and lack training) even though they have shown themselves that they aren't perfect either.

AIBU to think that when providing feedback and pulling people up on errors it can still be done in a respectful, polite way? Is it ok to speak as loudly as you can so that everyone within 20 feet can hear? Is it ok to shout at people at work, instead of conveying the same information at a regular volume? Are they just doing it so that others don't make the same errors? It feels really humiliating and shameful for the person on the receiving end.

Genuinely just trying to get my head round the department I'm in.

Run, and don't look back!

This is a thoroughly toxic environment and you can clearly see why so many colleagues are off on long-term sick leave.

In my experience, sadly, you're unlikely to get rid of the bully.

It's so funny you mention him!! He's who springs to mind, when I wonder if it's ever ok! It doesn't feel ok. I can't see how it ever gets the best of people.

No, it doesn't. It's completely counterproductive.

Do these people actually think they are good at their jobs?

When I was a teenager my boss shouted and swore at me and destroyed my work in front of at least 6 or 7 others (all older males)
I was an apprentice and the standard of work didn't really impact anyone else because it was a practise piece.
That was about 25 years so and I'd hoped people didn't behave like that any more

Lol the boss I'm talking about reminded me of him as well!
I always hope for GR its a persona that supposedly makes better TV than talking reasonably to people....

How have you felt being screamed and shouted at? Have you been able to move past it and keep working with those people? Do you think it's warranted in stressful circumstances. I'm someone who can't aggression so just trying to wrap my head around it.

Yadnbu

The pic sounds like a bully and is creating the toxic workspace.

I would be raising a grievance through HR

That is horrific! I'm scared to death of my kids getting jobs. I know we all need to be resilient and able to take feedback, but some of these bosses really crush your spirit. It's no wonder so many people want to work for themselves or at least remotely.

I wonder if it's some kind of power trip.

No, poor management. Praise in public, coach in private

I'm so glad so many on this thread have this general viewpoint. I agree with you entirely.

It's not ok to be given a dressing down, whether in public or otherwise. Any difficult conversation should be held in private and with due consideration given to the dignity of the person receiving negative feedback.
NHS staff often have to work in challenging and hostile environments, but this should not be created by your manager or colleagues. They should be the ones supporting you and each other in doing a difficult job.
This kind of toxic environment is really bad for patient care. You should raise it somewhere OP. There will be channels for raising concerns anonymously if you don't feel able to say anything more overtly.

Get your union rep involved. This sounds like a toxic, bullying environment.

Absofuckinglutely not.

Would anything actually be done about it? Would the people involved be told to stop? They need these people as they are highly experienced and we have massive staffing issues. I can't imagine they'd tell them off!

If there are inexperienced/untrained staff in the unit it is the line managers JOB to support them and any other staff who might be shouldering the extra load.
If they are not up to the mark then THEY should be looking for another post!

Acceptable reasons for shouting reprimands:

1. Someone at the far end of the ward is about to do something dangerous.
2. No, that's pretty much it.

Speak to your union rep and/or Freedom to Speak Up Guardian.

(And 'a dressing down' is a perfectly normal expression, but not acceptable practice.)

Can it ever be excused because it's a stressful environment?

Maybe in a war zone in the heat of the moment, but then I imagine staff are trained to know that if they do something wrong in that situation they will be pulled up on it straight away, regardless.

In the NHS it is common not to have any place or time to correct mistakes in the best way possible. I think context is everything. For example, in a room full of people ' Tim, did you order those bloods for patient x. We need them now. Can you do it please?' said sharply but not raised is fine.
'Tim you forgot those bloods again, why did you forget them? What were you doing? Now he's late for theatre, can you do it now? You'll have to explain to the anaesthetist why he's not ready.' not ok.
In the NHS you have to be willing to immediately push back nicely and have thick skin to be corrected. I'm not saying that's right but it is the case. Something immediate like 'of course I can do them now. I'll bleep the anaesthetist and tell them they aren't done just now so they know and don't come down yet. Like everyone we are rushed off our feet. '
And after the stress having a face to face conversation.
Also don't forget - the NHS is misogynistic. Male employees will take umbrage with you calling them out on bad behaviour. That's not on you. It's on them.

^^ It's good to hear your view. I will say, the mistakes I refer to usually need to be fed back and corrected as they happen, so in privacy isn't often going to be feasible or appropriate. However, I don't see why it still can't be fed back in a polite tone, at a normal volume, in a supportive way.

sounds appalling, if it is not already a dysfunctional team it soon will be. The atmosphere must be anxiety provoking and the more people are publicly critised the more anxious they tend to become and the more mistakes they make.

It's wrong. Have you or anyone else stood your ground, looked them in the eye and said "were you speaking to me?". And later to speak reasonably with them to ask them not to speak to people like that.

Also is this a Dr on nurses?

So many times, I have been so close to saying to a member of hospital staff "who do you think you are speaking to?", "don't use that tone with me" etc., that I suspect speaking to people/patients badly or as though they are a piece of sh1t is just part of the dysfunctional culture.

One new staff member actually said those exact words to one of the worst culprits. She actually said 'who do you think you're speaking to?!'

I'm not sure of the outcome or what happened after that, but she clearly wasn't going to stand for it. She was a new member of staff FFS, who had never done the job before, getting laid into for making a mistake! What planet do these people live on. I'd love to take them out of their department and drop them in a new job and see how many mistakes they make!!

By hostile environment I was thinking that you were talking about a prison or something similar, where the clients are the people causing a problem. The whole point of a workforce is that they should be working as a team - screaming at someone is really bad way to make them learn what they've done wrong, never mind the effect on morale.

Can you speak to this manager's manager or to HR?

Can you have a word with that person to see if they have any insight into how you could work together to challenge the culture?

The NHS has a substantial issue with this. It's not just the people at the heart of it, just witnessing incivility is enough to affect other people's relationships and their productivity.

This is about a more commercial setting but it's true elsewhere.

Nearly everybody who experiences workplace incivility responds in a negative way, in some cases overtly retaliating. Employees are less creative when they feel disrespected, and many get fed up and leave. About half deliberately decrease their effort or lower the quality of their work. And incivility damages customer relationships. Our research shows that people are less likely to buy from a company with an employee they perceive as rude, whether the rudeness is directed at them or at other employees. Witnessing just a single unpleasant interaction leads customers to generalize about other employees, the organization, and even the brand.

https://hbr.org/2013/01/the-price-of-incivility