Getting a dressing down at work in front of others. Ok or not?

[rolsete]

I'd love to hear thoughts from others on this. I recently moved into an alternative NHS department to increase my skill set. For context, on the job description for my own job and this department also, 'the ability to cope with an often hostile and challenging workplace' is listed on the job description.

There is a lot of sickness in the department which, on the face of it, looks like it results from mental health issues. Perhaps these particular employees aren't able to cope ALL the time with the 'hostile' environment, but manage to the majority of the time.

The person in charge raises their voices and 'dresses down' employees who make mistakes in front of a room full of staff (minimum 6+ at any one time). Often these seem to be fairly minor mistakes, and to be honest to be expected since we are all human and some staff have minimal experience and are on the lower pay bands.

Some people seem to be targeted over every mistake. Others who are really experienced and so obviously don't make many mistakes, can make a really significant whopper but aren't pulled up on it by said manager. Also, the really experienced person who made significant whopper is the first to shout at others (who are human, inexperienced and lack training) even though they have shown themselves that they aren't perfect either.

AIBU to think that when providing feedback and pulling people up on errors it can still be done in a respectful, polite way? Is it ok to speak as loudly as you can so that everyone within 20 feet can hear? Is it ok to shout at people at work, instead of conveying the same information at a regular volume? Are they just doing it so that others don't make the same errors? It feels really humiliating and shameful for the person on the receiving end.

Genuinely just trying to get my head round the department I'm in.

I experienced this. Was preparing the agenda for a meeting when the Director rang me and asked me to add 'Director's Concerns' to the agenda which I did. Director's Concerns consisted of a torrent of abuse towards me and a colleague in front of the rest of the staff. I walked out of that job that evening, contacted my union and never went back.

YANBU, they sound appalling, get out as soon as you can

Sounds like the nhs Dept I used to work in. Awful managers who had zero people skills. So glad to be out of it.

I think you know that what you are experiencing isn't right.

It must surely lead to a very high turnover of staff?

Are you in a union?

The other thing that springs out from your posts is that there must be a lack of training in your dept. It isn't usual for continuous little mistakes to be made. Are new employees given mentors to shadow? I get the impression its chaotic in your workplace and there isn't time to train people properly?

I'd leave OP. It must be an incredibly stressful environment where you're watching your back all the time.

I managed several teams during my time in the NHS, I cannot think of one occasion when I raised my voice, gave a dressing down etc to team members I front of others, if I had cause to pull someone up, it was done away from all other staff, one of my team once commented that in the five years we worked together I only pulled him up once and he knew it must be serious as I just didn’t do that, absolutely no need for it ,it’s poor management and bullying nothing more

Do you have a reporting system if you are abused by public, incidents etc. Ours is called datex not sure if it's my trust or all nhs. I'd start recording the abuse and keep a diary. Also check if your work is involved in the civility matters movement

I think the fact that it's a hostile/stressful environment imposes a positive duty on the employer to do everything possible to mitigate that. That would include things like training on dealing with difficult patients, a mentoring process, some sort of feedback system, etc. It would also certainly include doing everything possible to ensure that the staff team supports each other, not that they just make the environment more hostile.

Is it worth suggesting a team meeting with a view to facilitating that, and/or bringing in training on supporting each other in difficult circumstances?

Interesting. We have 3 other managers who I've never witnessed doing it, but they aren't on the 'front line' so to speak, so I wondered if it's acceptable if you're on the 'front line'.

Yes we have Datix. I'll have a look at the civility matters movement, thanks. This is what it boils down to really. I find the whole situation completely uncivilised.

No.

It's contributing to the stressful environment

And 'dressing down' is absolutely correct in these instances (although 'bollocking' also probably works)

Talk to your Freedom to Speak up (FtSu) Guardian, and they will investigate. No one should have to put up with public dressing downs... this is not good people management by any stretch of the imagination.

I suspect you'd have fewer staffing issues if it was a less toxic environment. The staff turnover must be pretty high. Who hangs around to be shouted at when they can get alternative jobs where they are treated with at least some respect?

@Anisette Really helpful post. It does feel completely counter productive to have this situation. I need to look into it more and see what can be done.

Have you contacted your union and asked for their advice’s n this matter?

Not yet. I wasn't sure if I was being overly sensitive to what I was witnessing.

Having just read up on the civility movement in healthcare, as prompted by a reply here, I can see how what I'm feeling is completely normal given the circumstances.

I've had one manager shout at me on one occasion due to an error I'd made. I was straight in for a 1-1 meeting with her the next day to make it very clear that I'm a good worker, I take accountability for my mistakes and do everything possible to learn from and resolve them independently. I will not accept being yelled at and i will not accept being yelled at in front of other people as its completely unnecessary. She apologised and never did it again but if she had I would have complained to senior management. I don't go to work to be spoken to like a child. I have never needed to yell at any staff I manage even the ones who were struggling. That's poor management and lack of management skill and training and its not my problem.

^^ God, all of this. This is the thing, these people are trying their best. They aren't making mistakes to piss her off. It's horrible to witness. And it does make you feel like a child again (not that children should be shouted and screamed at either). It's completely uncivilised.

Me too 🤣

I’d be putting in a grievance, the manager needs training. If nothing is tackled the manager will continue to do the job in part badly

Not acceptable at all.

The only reasonable one I can think of in front of others which does not need shouting is to object to foul or discriminatory language.

Rolsete, I managed a mental health crisis team, hard to get more frontline and still not acceptable to shout at staff, simply leads to a demoralised unmotivated workforce, I’m quite proud of the fact that in 9 years managing that team we had almost no staff turnover and negligible sickness, I like to think due at least to some degree on a contented, well motivated not shouted at workforce

It’s bullying. Start keeping a record and send to HR.

@MargotBamborough ·

My thought exactly re being proud of being a hostile environment! Usually people are proud of the friendly team environment. That sounds like a war zone!!!

"the ability to cope with an often hostile and challenging workplace' is listed on the job description."

Only people who like workplace bullying should apply.

Sooner or later, ubiquitous mobile phones will record this behaviour, and after it becomes public, the organisation will say "we didn't know."

Cannot really expect the staff to change if the job is described like that!!! Ok we know the NHS is not a fluffy and warm place to work, what is? But still...

It's never OK. It's a sign of a horrible, dysfunctional and toxic organisational culture.