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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to think it was not possible for Carole Middleton to engineer her daughters marriage?

330 replies

Bahhumbug23 · 30/11/2023 10:05

https://www.marieclaire.com/celebrity/royals/carole-middleton-master-plan/

Kate was staunchly middle class. The royals are notoriously snobby. Aibu to think that Carole did not & wouldn't be capable of engineering this? How the hell would she be able to do this?!

It Was Apparently Always Carole Middleton’s Master Plan for Eldest Daughter Kate to Meet and Woo Prince William, New Book Claims

“Carole set things up, and Kate took it the rest of the way.”

https://www.marieclaire.com/celebrity/royals/carole-middleton-master-plan

OP posts:
IcedPurple · 02/12/2023 21:27

Mikimoto · 02/12/2023 20:54

88.6% of UK students at St Andrews are white - that should suit Racey-Katie!

So pretty much in line with the general population then?

NonPlayerCharacter · 02/12/2023 21:28

Mikimoto · 02/12/2023 20:54

88.6% of UK students at St Andrews are white - that should suit Racey-Katie!

Is that her fault too?

82% of people in England and Wales and 95% of people in Scotland are white, so I'd say that reflects pretty well on St Andrews for inclusivity.

UrghAnotherOne · 02/12/2023 21:31

bellac11 · 30/11/2023 10:30

How would you pick the same subject. Where was it known what subject William was choosing at the time that Kate will have been making her university applications?

What was the subject anyway?

I wouldn't have even thought it was made public he was hoping to go to St Andrews until it was fait accompli and he was on his way?

I think she studied History of Art which is a posh girl subject but definitely not known for large numbers of male students!

Mikimoto · 02/12/2023 21:38

BMW6 · 30/11/2023 21:05

Why on earth is Carole Middleton getting so much credit for machinations on here? Why not Mr Middleton????

Why, on a Forum by women and supposedly in support of women, is there such obvious Misogyny??

I'm astounded and so disappointed. No wonder we don't progress so much - too busy knifing each other.

Mr Middleton is (albeit indirectly) descended from the royal family.
Vile Carole is descended from the local suntan salon.

NonPlayerCharacter · 02/12/2023 21:41

Mikimoto · 02/12/2023 21:38

Mr Middleton is (albeit indirectly) descended from the royal family.
Vile Carole is descended from the local suntan salon.

Show quote history

Overegged it, mate. The trick is to make it ridiculous but still just about plausible. It's a difficult balance to strike, to be fair, but even in 2005 people were doing it better.

Some people have the talent and some just haven't. Maybe try becoming an influencer. You'll need a bit of light in the basement, though.

muchalover · 02/12/2023 21:51

Catherine was in a relationship with another bloke for quite some time at the beginning. Hardly single and ready to mingle and a poor move by Carole.

William's application would have been closely guarded for security and applications have to be in 10 months before so I'm not sure how a bevy of extra girls could have attended for courses with limited numbers.

Aprilx · 02/12/2023 22:04

Thepeopleversuswork · 01/12/2023 11:51

@NonPlayerCharacter

Her family come in for a lot of crap (especially her mother) but they seem very secure, happy and loving.

Agree and I think the vilification of Carole Middleton is pure snobbery. A lot of people are just outraged that the family have been financially and socially successful and that their child married into the RF and has so far managed this very difficult role successfully and without drama.

I’m usually suspicious of people attributing everything to jealousy but in this case I think it’s textbook.

Thinking that the Carole or Carole and Michael arranged to steer Kate to where she might met William is not necessarily a vilification. I thought they did this and when I found Kate went on the same Raleigh expedition a few weeks apart, my mind was made up.

I think they did this, but I also think they seem like a nice family.

Aprilx · 02/12/2023 22:05

muchalover · 02/12/2023 21:51

Catherine was in a relationship with another bloke for quite some time at the beginning. Hardly single and ready to mingle and a poor move by Carole.

William's application would have been closely guarded for security and applications have to be in 10 months before so I'm not sure how a bevy of extra girls could have attended for courses with limited numbers.

Because he deferred his place for a year and where he intended to study was widely known.

Ramalangadingdong · 03/12/2023 13:08

Bahhumbug23 · 30/11/2023 10:28

Personally I think that Carole & Michael appear to be very warm, supportive & have a great relationship with their children. They have put up with so much flak & the majority of it is jealousy.
Anyone who know any upper middle class knows how difficult it is to break into that network. Look at the "doors to manuals" & other insults thrown at the Middletons from William's circle of friends.
There was no way Carole had any part in engineering the relationship. It's simply impossible.

Michael Middleton comes from a very well to do family that has had royal connections for generations (they were traditionally lawyers). It isn’t as though Kate came from nowhere into PWs orbit.

Stridingthroughtheglade · 03/12/2023 15:17

Mikimoto · 02/12/2023 21:38

Mr Middleton is (albeit indirectly) descended from the royal family.
Vile Carole is descended from the local suntan salon.

Show quote history

Vile Carole is descended from the local suntan salon.

This is hideous snobbery.

(And I’m a republican.)

NonPlayerCharacter · 03/12/2023 15:17

Stridingthroughtheglade · 03/12/2023 15:17

Vile Carole is descended from the local suntan salon.

This is hideous snobbery.

(And I’m a republican.)

Edited
Show quote history

It would be if it were at all sincere. Don't encourage him.

newnamethanks · 03/12/2023 17:17

Descended indirectly? How so ?

MrsSunshine2b · 03/12/2023 19:33

If it's really as easy as everyone seems to think, I might have my daughter marry Prince Louis. He seems like a good laugh and I reckon they'd cause mayhem together. Would be fun to watch.

Alohapotato · 03/12/2023 20:13

Accountsdept · 30/11/2023 19:10

I've had dealings with the Middletons through work, they are utterly vile people. I dont think they engineered it but have benefitted from it! I believe Kate is lovely though

Why vile?

TeaMistress · 03/12/2023 20:29

Mikimoto · 02/12/2023 20:54

88.6% of UK students at St Andrews are white - that should suit Racey-Katie!

What a thoroughly nasty offensive thing to say. What kind of vile disgusting person says things like this. Give your head a fucking wobble if this is the type of thing you say about other people.

Wbeezer · 03/12/2023 22:29

88.6% of UK students may be white, which is pretty representative of the UK population, but there are lots of international students from non-white countries, its actually relatively diverse due to the high numbers of international students, especially in some departments.

Ramalangadingdong · 03/12/2023 23:51

MrsSunshine2b · 03/12/2023 19:33

If it's really as easy as everyone seems to think, I might have my daughter marry Prince Louis. He seems like a good laugh and I reckon they'd cause mayhem together. Would be fun to watch.

It wouldn’t work unless you move in the same circles as the Middletons did with the royal family. If your child becomes a famous singer or actor and is beautiful then you might also stand a chance of them having an affair with Louis.

Kate stood as much of a chance of bagging a royal as anyone else in their circle.

CurlewKate · 04/12/2023 08:02

@Ramalangadingdong "Kate stood as much of a chance of bagging a royal as anyone else in their circle."

Well, as much chance as anyone else who spent 4 years in the same very small quite isolated and exclusive community as said royal......

Ramalangadingdong · 04/12/2023 09:48

CurlewKate · 04/12/2023 08:02

@Ramalangadingdong "Kate stood as much of a chance of bagging a royal as anyone else in their circle."

Well, as much chance as anyone else who spent 4 years in the same very small quite isolated and exclusive community as said royal......

She is part of that exclusive circle.

It was very interesting to me to find out that quite a few of the young people on reality show Made in Chelsea have links with the young royals.

We plebs have no idea how the other half lives - well, I don’t. I remember being shocked to read just how wealthy Kate’s family is and that their royal connections go back generations (they were involved in the judiciary). I remember reading that while they were at Uni Kate and William used to host their own Summer Ball and that Katherine was quite ruthless about chopping people off the invite list if they didn’t come up to muster - and in some cases for seemingly no reason whatsoever. That shocked me because the image I had of her at the time was as a shy person but she is a very confident woman who knows how to get what she wants - good for her!

Enough of this nonsense. When young I was not beautiful or well connected enough to bag a Prince so I have to work and will probably be doing so until the day I die. So I had better get back to it.

Original poster
Bahhumbug23 · 04/12/2023 10:01

@Ramalangadingdong you are absolutely correct, the normal folk have no idea how the upper echleons of society socialise. However it is a fact that it is impossible to break into the inner upper class circle. So Kate & Pippa obviously had the background to allow them in.

I could never imagine Kate excluding anyone! She seems so lovely. I'd imagine she is very resilient & steely which are two wonderful traits to have.

OP posts:
CurlewKate · 04/12/2023 11:02

@Ramalangadingdong

"She is part of that exclusive circle."

Yes, she is. And going to St Andrews made that circle even smaller and more exclusive.

Original poster
Bahhumbug23 · 04/12/2023 11:35

Were Carole & Michael part of an elite social set prior to the children or did the children become part of this set via education?

OP posts:
Wbeezer · 04/12/2023 12:43

I feel people are exaggerating how exclusive St Andrews is, it's not exactly a gated community, you have to have v good exam results to get in, especially if you're a Scottish student, but there aren't interviews to check you out or preferential treatment for alumni offspring and you can't request particular halls. Four kids went from DS2's year at a fairly mid ranking Scottish comp, they were all quite swotty but not posh! It's not like Brideshead Revisited !
It's often heaving with ordinary Joe Public on any nice day, eating ice creams and walking on the beaches with dogs.
If you avoid going to the balls it's a fairly standard student experience (minus big city stuff).

Ramalangadingdong · 04/12/2023 13:00

Wbeezer · 04/12/2023 12:43

I feel people are exaggerating how exclusive St Andrews is, it's not exactly a gated community, you have to have v good exam results to get in, especially if you're a Scottish student, but there aren't interviews to check you out or preferential treatment for alumni offspring and you can't request particular halls. Four kids went from DS2's year at a fairly mid ranking Scottish comp, they were all quite swotty but not posh! It's not like Brideshead Revisited !
It's often heaving with ordinary Joe Public on any nice day, eating ice creams and walking on the beaches with dogs.
If you avoid going to the balls it's a fairly standard student experience (minus big city stuff).

All Unis have cliques but the clique they belonged to was very exclusive. It was years ago now since they were at Uni so their time there is not reported on anymore. It was fairly interesting at the time because it made me realise that we have no idea what these people are really like - all we see is them being smiley and warm (in a formal way) on walkabouts or brief meetings with the public.

spriots · 04/12/2023 13:20

Ramalangadingdong · 04/12/2023 13:00

All Unis have cliques but the clique they belonged to was very exclusive. It was years ago now since they were at Uni so their time there is not reported on anymore. It was fairly interesting at the time because it made me realise that we have no idea what these people are really like - all we see is them being smiley and warm (in a formal way) on walkabouts or brief meetings with the public.

Show quote history

I was at university with a different (minor) royal and it was very striking the extent to which he was perfectly polite to everyone but had absolutely no intention of socialising with anyone outside the upper class folk he already knew. His set lived a totally separate life from everyone else. I think this was even more the case for William