Doesn't it feel terribly unfair sometimes that..

[DrowninginMaryBeardsBeard]

The kids in primary school who tend to be the clever ones also, unfairly, seem to be attractive and popular too.
Not sure if its just my kids school. Obviously my kid is beyond beautiful to me. But she's not as well put together as these girls, her hair is all over the place due to her inheriting curly hair from me, she's too skinny due to food aversion.
Then there's a group of girls who are just beautiful, they always have neat work, speak several languages, get the best parts in the school play, they look... cool... even at nine. Mums are equally stylish usually European women.
Why is this? Attractive well educated women have attractive clever children. Scatty, hairy mares like me born without beauty and brains have to run around like headless chickens, work more hours for less pay so have less time for taking our kids to the hairdressers and spending hours teaching them Spanish, doing long division or reading the classics?
It's like if you see the line of kids you could almost match them up with the parents without knowing. Slightly overweight child with the overweight parents, messy kid with the messy mum (that's me!), hippie child with the hippie parents, sleek ponytailed outdoorsy child with horse riding mum. I mean this isn't exactly rocket science. But the link between attractiveness, academic ability, class and 'polish' .... that I find fascinating.
Is there also a link with neurodiversity?
For what it's worth my primary school was not middle class at all, kids with parents in prison or addicts who had left them with grandparents to raise, and this was not the case. We were all the same class and so that wasn't a factor. It was more who was 'pretty' and that was only decided by who the boys wanted to kiss, so not a true representation of beauty. I remember there being a sort of 'blonde privilege' where blondeness was a marker of beauty which brunette would never beat, regardless of facial symmetry. That would never fly now and would be rightly challenged in DD's very diverse school.
And these ramblings are why I'm exhausted every day...

My Mum told me that well educated men have always had their pick of the prettiest girls and that's why pretty genes and clever genes go together.

I'm not sure how true that is, but I've always found intelligence attractive. "Pretty" varies through time too- both very skinny and curly hair have been very desirable historically.

Bill Gates is the only one who I might be inclined to describe as "ugly".

It's not that the others are especially attractive. But they do all have a certain amount of facial symmetry.

There are other things, like good teeth, or fitness, that tend to be correlated more with wealth. But I do think having a symetrical face and body tends to make people come across better that they would otherwise.

Some of the conditions that allow for the development of high IQ, and good social skills, also lend themselves to being physically attractive.

If you have poor nutrition, for example, or terrible diseases as a kid, you are unlikely to reach your best potential in terms of looks or brains.

But also - the people with both looks and brains do tend to rise to the top. It's the same to some extent in the animal kingdom. Being physically attractive has some level of relationship to having a body that works well. Well proportioned, fit, etc. And so does intelligence. So if you have both, you have a much higher chance of success.

I've often commented, looking at the Olympic athletes when you see them all lined up.
So many of them are really attractive as well as obviously hugely talented.
They seem to have won the genetic lottery.

However in that case perhaps the excellent nutrition and peak physical fitness needed add to the person's attractiveness.

In dc class, of the top 4 academically 3 are ordinary looking and one is the genetics lottery kid, good looking, clever and popular.

But then the "it" girl from that class (beautiful inside and out with a mother who is the same) is quite "average" academically as far as I can tell. Although her handwriting is lovely.

I don't mean to come across mean or belittling but you might really benefit from therapy. I understand that 'beauty privilege' is a real thing. But not everyone is a supermodel and we all just need to get by. Most people manage due to self-confidence and focusing on actual skills, not just looks (that will fade eventually anyway). If you look at the most successful people in the world, they're not always the most beautiful (Bezos? Jack Black? Even Elon Musk?) But they've created a good life for themselves thru other skills. That's what you could instill to your kid and yourself.

Bit weird to be thinking about this IMO about your child, but I guess as adults you get 'A types' who tend to be perfectionists and this often extends to their appearance.

My mum is very intelligent, had a very good job and never left the house without make up and dressed immaculately (she also never relaxes ever). She pushed us a lot academically and also on the way we looked. I've now got a good job, speak 5 languages and also never leave the house without being presentable. She held the bar high in all respects, the balance though is making sure your children don't beat themselves up for not achieving your standards. My mum made me feel bad if I wasn't skinny for instance and I had to fight that. I know similar mums who nagged their daughters about their weight and appearance.

I notice this with the junior doctors, most are good looking, attractive and confident.

Haha thanks needed a laugh.

I’m kinda ugly, daughter is pretty but grandson is utterly gorgeous ( hear all the time too pretty to be a boy)

I work at an independent school in a wealthy area and we do seem to have a large proportion of attractive kids, noticeably more than when I worked in a comprehensive. Good skin and teeth, shiny hair, well-proportioned physiques, etc.

My 6YO does very well at school and is in top sets etc. Obviously I think she's incomparably gorgeous and clever. However,I do still acknowledge that she usually comes out from school looking like she's been dragged through a hedge backwards. Her white school shirts are all covered in baked bean etc stains. Maybe I have rose-tinted glasses but to me all the kids in her class are really sweet, pretty and bright and articulate. I don't see the correlation tbh. I'd actually feel sorry for the kids you're jealous of. I'd be concerned that a consistently well presented and high performing child is under a lot of pressure from somewhere. Who knows whether their future is riddled with other issues like MH problems. Just do you and enjoy your kids. It's a marathon not a sprint and happiness is the most important end goal

I am very clever but plain and scruffy. I kind of leaned into it at school as I got very into the identity of being "not like the other girls" 🙄 got over that pomposity in later life but obvs by then I'd missed the boat on learning how to at least be well groomed and put together - i pretty much top out at hygienic 😆

I am very intimidated by the "shiny mums" at school as I call them - the glossy, stylish, label-wearing ones who swish about and all know each other and feel like the cool girls from when I was at school myself. And yeah their kids always do seem to be the alpha kids in their classes.

My own DD is a brilliant, creative, scatty, scruffy eccentric and I worship her. All the glossy ponytails and second languages in the world can't top that in my eyes. I try to fill her with the idea she is perfect just as she is, before the tween nastiness begins and she starts to feel "less" because she's not conventionally "pretty" (as in polished and put together) or academically competitive. I want her to live in her own little world, where she's blissfully happy. As long as she can.

Mark zuckerburg? 🤢

And this is just a money thing isn’t it. Because wealth can make that for a lot of people.

Success is different for everyone. I admire your career choice, do you feel proud of your work? I think you should, but it's typical WC to not be gobby about our achievements to anyone including ourselves.

You are who you are, you daughter is who she is. She's just a child and beautiful in her own right.

Squirrel brutally I think that’s true. Dd2 goes to a girls state and when I collect her the girls are certainly all shapes and sizes bless them. Dd2 looks out of place there. . She has voted with her feet and socialises exclusively with the popular private school set who are beautiful (as is she). They sort of flock together. They are nice girls but I would have been terrified of them at 15 myself.

I’ve never noticed this being the case!

I agree - it’s money making that happen.

Good nutrition, good skin care etc A lack of worries maybe?

Dds best friend is the richest and most beautiful of them all. The good fairies were certainly present at her Christening!

Beauty is often perceived better when people are true glass half full people. You sound like a glass half empty woman.
Positive thought makes self esteem grow.
Try to behave like a lucky, happy, clever and good enough looking woman. Your daughter could then make the most of herself by emulating her confident mother.

From an animal biology standpoint, humans tend to subconsciously look for health markers when they are estimating someone else’s attractiveness. This is because a healthy individual is not only more likely to survive bearing and rearing young, but also to be able to pull their weight in the group.

It’s well-documented that poverty goes hand in hand with a whole host of health problems, ranging from things like smaller stature and obesity to poor teeth, skin, and hair. These are related to poor nutrition, suboptimal environmental factors, and a whole host of other things that come along with poverty. Unsurprisingly, poor nutrition and suboptimal environment show up not only on your face and teeth but also in your academic performance. A child who didn’t get enough to eat for dinner and then had a fitful night of sleep because they were shivering in a freezing cold house will not perform as well at school as a child who has regularly been fed plentiful, vitamin-rich meals and who sleeps soundly in a cozy bed in a warm house. Those kids pull away over time from the pack, and by 10 years old the cumulative effect of the differences becomes noticeable.

I think a huge proportion of what we see as a pure genetic lottery does relate back to money in some way.

My DD is beautiful. I have been told this by multiple strangers since she was small. She's also very clever, in top sets for everything and predicted top grades for GCSEs. However, she puts a lot of pressure on herself to be perfect (we do not pressure her at all BTW), and certainly isn't overly confident. She overthinks everything and would never want to be the centre of attention.

Another thing that I have caught in myself and which I read into your post a bit is treating our kids like extensions of ourselves, as if they reflect on us, which when one is insecure can result in being over critical of them in the same way we are over critical of ourselves.

The thing I caught myself out with when DD1 was quite little was expecting her to always be the one to give way to other kids when they had disagreements, to give up the disputed toy, to "be kind" - i am a people pleaser due to insecurity and often feel that kindness and flexibility and giving a lot is thr only thing that gives me value socially, and i was pushing that identity onto her, at least in part so other parents would "like me more" for making their little one's life easier/nicer.

I was horrified at myself when I realised I was doing it and why (it was actually the cultural interrogation of "be kind" which prompted the introspection!) and I stopped immediately when she was about 2. However, it obviously stuck to some extent, as when she started actually forming friendships instead of "playing alongside" when she's was about 4, she had a lot of trouble with one particularly dominant friend who she was really struggling to deal with, because she didn't have the confidence to push her own wants and ideas and was inclined to just "give way" - I had to do a lot of reinforcement and scripting with her to give her the confidence and tools to say no and be assertive. She and the friend still have a strong relationship but it's much more equal now.

I'm waffling now but I think what I'm saying is don't look at your DD with those critical eyes you imagine the world is turning on you, and on her as an "output" of you - it may be true, it may not, but you are her number one cheerleader. You will be the voice in her head telling her what she is worth when she's older, and if she picks up on the "well of course I think you're wonderful buuuut..." sort of vibe then it might give her a negative view of herself.

Whereas you know those annoying parents who think the sun shines out of their kids' backsides? Those kids are full of confidence (wonted or otherwise). There's a balance to be struck of course, but I'm just very mindful of my own projecting, and putting my longstanding fear of being disliked onto my DD. Fortunately as I get older I give less and less of a shit what other people think, and it's incredibly liberating. I'd like to build that into my DDs from the ground up so it doesn't take them until nearly 40 to find some self acceptance like it has me!

I would have said the opposite was true at my schools. The ‘attractive cool kids’ both at the state primary and private secondary I attended were definitely not the bright ones and the two were if anything negatively correlated. I am highly academic, in a relatively highly paid healthcare position, and I was definitely not considered attractive at school (not ugly either though ie not a sterotypical geek-I was more punky and considered neither cool nor uncool). In terms of ‘polish’ I can understand this behaviour being instilled into children from their parents, and to an extent the importance of an education, but I don’t see the two going hand in hand at all.