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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

7 dogs in Starbucks today is too much

1000 replies

Elfandwellbeing · 25/11/2023 18:47

I turned around and walked out again, don’t get me started on dogs sniffing cups and plates of food whilst sat next to the owners.
What is the solution ?
Can’t dogs be left anymore?
AIBU to think dog separation cannot be so painful that dogs have to go everywhere!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Mercurial123 · 26/11/2023 12:58

AtomicPumpkin · 26/11/2023 12:16

If there were one designated cafe in every town for neurotic dogs and their incompetent owners, I wouldn't have a word to say against it.

And one for incompetent parents and their children?

Utterbunkum · 26/11/2023 13:06

@TurquoiseHexagonSun oh, right, fair enough. I agree on that basis. It's another example of the fact that what is fundamentally a marketing ploy to capitalise on increased dog ownership is rapidly becoming a perceived 'right'.

sollenwir · 26/11/2023 13:09

Mercurial123 · 26/11/2023 12:58

And one for incompetent parents and their children?

....and another one for those who think it's reasonable to compare dogs and children.

Lucytheloose · 26/11/2023 13:14

Shittyflute · 26/11/2023 12:47

I have never been in a dog friendly place where dogs were behaving badly, barking, running about, begging for other people’s food etc. By and large they ate sitting minding their own business.

The badly behaved ones may have been chucked out. My SIL was understandably asked to leave a cafe because her dogs wouldn't stop barking and reacting. She had already paid for her food, so she took them to the outdoor tables where they proceeded to knock over the table complete with coffee, sandwich and traybake. Probably trying to get a bite of the sandwich, since that's what they're used to. They aren't big scary dogs, just untrained. I'm sure the people trying to enjoy a Sunday morning coffee in that particular establishment were glad to see the tail end of her and her unruly dogs.

😂Karma occasionally works!

Lucytheloose · 26/11/2023 13:18

Mercurial123 · 26/11/2023 12:58

And one for incompetent parents and their children?

Just stick'em all in together. It would have to be a very large establishment though and I can't imagine who would want to work there.

Anothernewname123 · 26/11/2023 13:21

It's not just allergies. I have a family member with ASD who is very anxious around dogs. They have made much progress from the times of complete meltdown distress at the sight of a dog and can tolerate them better but constantly having to manage this trigger in places that previously would have been free of dogs is yet another stress.
I live in SE England and can't think of a dog-free cafe in my locality.

Frequency · 26/11/2023 13:28

Lucytheloose · 26/11/2023 13:18

Just stick'em all in together. It would have to be a very large establishment though and I can't imagine who would want to work there.

We have one of those establishments. It's called the Wacky Warehouse. Ours is in a really rough area and utterly rank.

I actively avoided it even when the kids were small. We would go to the "naice" pub with the outdoor playground instead.

Headinthesand21 · 26/11/2023 13:33

Boomboom22 · 26/11/2023 12:14

I really don't think it is a business decision in most cases. More like entitled dog owners just take their dogs into places then kick off if told not allowed, so staff have been told not to challenge as its dangerous.
Similar to shoplifting after covid.

Many dog owners are so selfish they don't ask or look for a sign and often kick off saying their dog is better than children.

There is one poster on here so dim they keep confusing a child's nappy covered and clothed bottom as a greater hygiene risk than a dogs paws or anus on a seat or trolley. How can you communicate with that as an argument? Covered humans vs an animal?
And all the posters who can't tell that humans trump dogs. It's pressure on businesses because they shout the loudest. Polite would be customers just leave and don't come back.

I've also seen xl bullies as therapy dogs, just imagine what will happen soon in schools and hospitals if this trend continues.

I think this post demonstrates the problem with discussions of this kind.

Sweeping statements about dog owners being selfish and entitled and calling people dim are unhelpful. Sorry, but this says more about the person writing these statements than it does about those it is intended to refer to.

Whatever your feelings on dogs, the comments about their bottoms on the floor are bizarre. Dog bums don’t automatically get wiped along the floor when the sit down. Even if they did, peoples shoes must carry all manner of grot and bacteria; imagine what you pick up on your shoes when walking in a public loo, the tube or around the town. The footfall of these places must mean that floors are truly filthy, even if they look clean. However, neither dirty shoes or dog bums really matter much on this context as we don’t normally eat off the floor!

Interestingly, contrary to the suggestions of ‘filthy’ dogs, there are actually now known to be considerable benefits to immunity from having a pet.

It isn’t selfish for dog owners to take their dogs to places where the proprietors actively welcome their custom. Likewise, it’s ridiculous to suggest that dogs are a retrograde step for
disability rights and access. Whilst I would appreciate the challenges that multiple dogs might pose to a wheelchair user, this isn’t insurmountable. My husband is disabled so I am aware of how challenging access can be generally. Its down to businesses to ensure that all customers can access their business safely. Disabled customers should absolutely be a priority consideration doing so doesn’t mean that dogs have to be excluded.

Some people love dogs and some dislike them. There are responsible dog owners and appalling ones that allow their dogs to be dangerous or a complete PITA. Likewise, some people love small children and some don’t, some parents are considerate to others and others allow their feral children to ruin it for others. Some people have allergies to all kind of things and others don’t.

Everybody will hold their opinion and has a right to express it in a respectful way. In life, any one person exercising their rights will inevitably mean that others are affected, positively or negatively. We cannot all be satisfied at the same time.

We have a beautiful, intelligent little cockerpoo, who is well trained, dearly loved and gives us so much joy. She is very much part of our family and yes, she is my baby. I am a carer for my husband, who is disabled and has a life limiting disease; it is isolating and cruel and she gives me much joy at what is a very difficult time. We take her out and about, including to cafes and such places. She gets lots of love and attention from others out and about. I enjoy her company and she is a confidence boost to my husband, who is disabled. We don’t allow her to outwardly annoy others, but of course we can’t tell if someone has an allergy to her.

Reading through mumsnet, some posters feel that this makes me selfish, self-entitled, incompetent and emotionally unintelligent. It is shocking that some posters feel entitled to make such judgments on people who are complete strangers to them.

Tatumm · 26/11/2023 13:51

Just because life it difficult or your husband is disabled, it still doesn’t entitle you to disregard the needs of others.

As others have already pointed out, it’s not just people in wheelchairs who are inconvenienced by dogs in food outlets. You have no idea what’s going on for other people.

Headinthesand21 · 26/11/2023 13:55

Tatumm · 26/11/2023 13:51

Just because life it difficult or your husband is disabled, it still doesn’t entitle you to disregard the needs of others.

As others have already pointed out, it’s not just people in wheelchairs who are inconvenienced by dogs in food outlets. You have no idea what’s going on for other people.

Which is exactly the point that I have made.

Neither your opinion, nor mine, is ‘right’. No opinion is right for everybody, always, at any one time. Just because opinions differ, it does not mean that one person is ‘disregarding’ the needs of others. It is about compromise and understanding.

And nobody, ever, should be making the kind of comments made in your previous post. It is rude, unnecessary and adds nothing to any constructive debate

Cosyblankets · 26/11/2023 13:59

Anothernewname123 · 26/11/2023 13:21

It's not just allergies. I have a family member with ASD who is very anxious around dogs. They have made much progress from the times of complete meltdown distress at the sight of a dog and can tolerate them better but constantly having to manage this trigger in places that previously would have been free of dogs is yet another stress.
I live in SE England and can't think of a dog-free cafe in my locality.

Costa
I'm sure there will be a few near you

Frequency · 26/11/2023 14:00

Tatumm · 26/11/2023 13:51

Just because life it difficult or your husband is disabled, it still doesn’t entitle you to disregard the needs of others.

As others have already pointed out, it’s not just people in wheelchairs who are inconvenienced by dogs in food outlets. You have no idea what’s going on for other people.

Again, it is not the dog owners who have made Starbucks dog-friendly. It is the CEO of Starbucks, presumably because market research indicated it would boost profits. Businesses cater to the majority. They always have. They always will.

How far do businesses need to take the minority into account before they are deemed selfless? Shall pubs stop serving alcohol because some alcoholics struggle? Should cinemas turn down the volume and allow chatting and screaming because some people struggle?

If you think there is a gap in the market in your local area for a dog-free cafe open one. You cannot force Starbucks to cater to people who do not like dogs.

Mercurial123 · 26/11/2023 14:01

sollenwir · 26/11/2023 13:09

....and another one for those who think it's reasonable to compare dogs and children.

I didn't say that. If a child is misbehaving, it's up to their parents to resolve the issue. The incompetent ones who ignore the issue are at fault, not the children.

Cosyblankets · 26/11/2023 14:04

TurquoiseHexagonSun · 26/11/2023 11:12

It's a matter of opinion that they're not doing anything wrong. How are people supposed to 'manage' their allergies if they're encountering allergy triggers in more and more public places these days? Are they supposed to just 'go home' as a pp charmingly posited?

The fact that so many places allow dogs now really cuts down the pool of choice for people who are allergic. And no, dog owners aren't obligated to care about that, but then they shouldn't be surprised if some people consider them selfish as a result.

So if I'm in the middle of my lunch in the dog friendly cafe with my dog and you come in, what exactly is it you'd like me to do?

MsBea · 26/11/2023 14:12

Cosyblankets · 26/11/2023 14:04

So if I'm in the middle of my lunch in the dog friendly cafe with my dog and you come in, what exactly is it you'd like me to do?

Consider in advance that not everyone wants to be subjected to your dog, and leave it at home.

Bolloxforsure · 26/11/2023 14:16

Complain to the business owners. Get on Twitter. Start petitions.
Don’t just expect people to stop doing something they are quite within their rights to do on the off chance they inadvertently piss someone off.

Cosyblankets · 26/11/2023 14:18

MsBea · 26/11/2023 14:12

Consider in advance that not everyone wants to be subjected to your dog, and leave it at home.

If I'm out walking and I'm not near home i will Google dog friendly cafes near me.... and then I'll go with my dog, to a dog friendly cafe, where dogs are allowed. Sorry if any of that upsets you!

Dobbyismyabsolutefav · 26/11/2023 14:20

In my local coffee shop last week. The cute dachshund puppy sitting on their owner's lap, no problem. The medium size dog who was wandering off lead then cocked their leg and pee'd all over the Christmas tree, grim. The owner was apologetic but his attempt to clean up was woeful.

Cosyblankets · 26/11/2023 14:26

Dobbyismyabsolutefav · 26/11/2023 14:20

In my local coffee shop last week. The cute dachshund puppy sitting on their owner's lap, no problem. The medium size dog who was wandering off lead then cocked their leg and pee'd all over the Christmas tree, grim. The owner was apologetic but his attempt to clean up was woeful.

I would have a problem with a dog of any size sitting on owner's lap. I don't want their nose near the table. The dog should be on the floor. As for the dog weeing he should have been on a short lead under the table or next to the chair. I'm a dog owner and i would never allow either of those scenarios to happen

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 26/11/2023 14:30

Cosyblankets · 26/11/2023 14:26

I would have a problem with a dog of any size sitting on owner's lap. I don't want their nose near the table. The dog should be on the floor. As for the dog weeing he should have been on a short lead under the table or next to the chair. I'm a dog owner and i would never allow either of those scenarios to happen

My dogs’ noses are level with the table wherever they stand or sit. No going away from that!

They love visiting my local
cafe and pubs and they are more then welcome there.

justaboutdonenow · 26/11/2023 14:31

MsBea · 26/11/2023 14:12

Consider in advance that not everyone wants to be subjected to your dog, and leave it at home.

Unless you have medical reasons, can you explain what your problem would be if you walk into a cafe that's known to be dog friendly, & you spot my 4kg, well groomed, quiet & well trained dog asleep under my chair?

I don't eat animals, & always check to see if cafes, pubs, takeaways etc cater to my preferences before patronising them, can you not do the same with regards to dogs?

I'm not keen on lots of noise, when I look at a restaurant I want to eat at I look for somewhere less likely to have lots of drunks, families with children or stag/hen parties.

Is it really that hard for people to do the same when it comes to dogs?

hookiewookie29 · 26/11/2023 14:33

We have a dog, but I don't like them being in every food place I go to. Was in a pub once, it started to bucket it down with rain so all the dog walkers came in. The smell of wet, dirty dogs was so overwhelming that we left.
A pub local to us has a dog- a big, hairy one that wanders freely around the pub and restaurant. Which I wasn't impressed with when it kept coming under our table to get crumbs off the floor and beg for food. Mentioned it to the manager who stated that the dog was a law unto himself and he couldn't do anything about it. So we never went back.

XenoBitch · 26/11/2023 14:35

MsBea · 26/11/2023 14:12

Consider in advance that not everyone wants to be subjected to your dog, and leave it at home.

And dog owners get called selfish and entitled.....

Frequency · 26/11/2023 14:37

XenoBitch · 26/11/2023 14:35

And dog owners get called selfish and entitled.....

Quite.

If you dislike dogs so much that you cannot possibly finish your lunch in the vicinity of one do not go to a dog-friendly eating establishment. You cannot expect other patrons who are acting entirely within the business's rules to pander to you. And you cannot expect the business owner to turn away other paying customers just for you. That is the height of entitlement.

Cosyblankets · 26/11/2023 14:38

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 26/11/2023 14:30

My dogs’ noses are level with the table wherever they stand or sit. No going away from that!

They love visiting my local
cafe and pubs and they are more then welcome there.

Fair enough but i think there's a difference between their nose being at a level with the table when they sit and actually sitting on a chair at the table.

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