To touch a strangers dog without permission then to be abusive when it barks

[WeHaveChocIcesInTheFreezer]

For context; we have a 4 year old female German Shepherd who is the softest, friendliest dog you can meet IF she knows you. She is not good with strangers, especially men, after some horrible experiences as a very young puppy. Typical of her breed she is loyal, loving and protective over us and our DC (6mo twins)- to note she is NEVER alone with or out of reach when around DC and has only ever been calm and affectionate towards them.

This morning I’m out walking her with a friend and have the twins in their pram, my friend pops into a shop so I’m stood outside with the pram in front of me and her sat calmly by my feet, next to the pram. Out of nowhere a young, quite big in build, man appears next to me and just lunges towards her and sticks his hand into her face. She instinctively sees this as a threat to her and us and immediately snaps at him/barks loudly. He backs off whilst quite angrily saying ‘not a friendly dog then eh?’.. so I said ‘actually she is but not with strangers and you should have asked before touching her!’ To which he raises his voice and starts saying ‘you shouldn’t have an effing dog on the streets if it isn’t effing friendly to strangers!’

At this point my friend comes out of the shop so this man storms off whilst shouting back more abuse about me being a ‘silly cow’ and having a ‘dangerous dog’..

Now I’m aware she’s a protective breed and can be intimidating to some, but I had a halter collar/lead on her and kept her by my feet/out of the way of people passing. She has zero issues around people as long as they don’t try touch her without warning. He PURPOSELY leaned across me to touch her with no warning!

AIBU to be annoyed at him? Or could I/should I have done more to avoid strangers touching her?

If the dog was on a lead and minding its own business, would you not feel that you had some responsibility? I’d be incandescent with rage if my dog had to be euthanized because your out of control child hurt him and got snapped at as a result of your lack of control.

I've told my kids not to pat any strange dog without asking the owner. And that goes for the tiniest breeds too, as they can be really snappy. I'd even be wary of cats tbh - there's a bit of a temperamental one down the street from us that can swipe at times.

Please don’t teach your child not to approach “strange” dogs. I told my dd this, and two minutes later she was stroking another dog. “What did I just say to you about strange dogs DD” . Puzzled expression, “ it’s not a strange dog mummy, its an ordinary dog”.

So don’t use the expression “strange” ,to a small child it can have another meaning. As does “ a strangers dog” - someone you walk past every day in the park,even if you don’t know their name,or speak to them, is not a “stranger” to a small child.

Stupid man.

Our dog hates being approached by strangers. We ended up having to get 'do not pet' attachments for his harness, which do work well. Prior to that, people would start to ask if it was okay to pet him but ignore me as I said no (knowing that he doesn't like it) and then get offended when he growled or snapped.

He was an idiot. Everyone should educate themselves on how to behave around dogs and if they have children they should also make sure they teach them what to do and what not to do.

I love dogs, although I have never owned one and know the importance of things like body language, eye contact etc. To just go up to a dog and try to touch it, is just stupid and potentially dangerous, not least to the dog which might be euthanised if it bites someone through that person's ignorance.

The law is clear it’s your responsibility to stop your dog from biting people. There is no justification that it’s ok because the parent didn’t ‘control’ their child. You can’t injure someone because they’ve got too close to you 😆
you say your dog snapped/ barked? Which was it?

Excellent and very important advice.

I don't agree with owning these big aggressive/protective dogs unless perhaps they're muzzled in public, because he's right that they are dangerous - the world is unpredictable etc etc.

However he was a total dick and an idiot to touch your dog without asking and you sound like a responsible owner. People like this are just as annoying imo as the dog owners who think their animal running up to and jumping on people is no big deal.

YANBU. Even my children know not to touch a dog without permission.

I wonder what you mean exactly when you say that your dog 'snapped at' that man? Of course he was in the wrong for touching her without asking, and for doing it abruptly in a way that unnerved the dog, but snapping (as I understand the term) is quite a serious bad behaviour.
All the man said in response initially was 'not a friendly dog then, eh!' Which is quite a mild response to being snapped at. I guess he then became angry about being made to feel largely responsible for the incident.
If the dog actually snapped, then I think you share the responsibility. A dog that does that has to be extremely carefully watched in any situation when others might touch it.
I say this as someone who used to have a terrier who hated being touched by strangers. It made me very annoyed when people touched him thoughtlessly, even after i had explained that he didn't like it. But he only ever growled, never snapped. Even so, I very very seriously considered it to be my responsibility to prevent touching by strangers, just in case it ever escalated to snapping.

I don’t really think you can dickhead proof the world. Animals will scratch/ bite if you threaten them. At what point do people take responsibility for their own behaviour?

YANBU at all. Nobody should be touching anyone else's dog without asking first, ever.

I'm always amused at people who say things like 'You shouldn't have a dog out in public if you can't guarantee it won't bite someone who touches it without permission'. That's a bit like saying 'You shouldn't drive a car if you can't guarantee you won't injure someone who throws themselves in front of it'. Or 'You shouldn't have electricity in your house if you can't guarantee someone's safety when they poke a wet screwdriver into your plug sockets'. Or 'You shouldn't drink a cup of tea unless you can guarantee it won't burn someone who decides to dip their hand into it'

@FuckinghellthatsUnbelievable Well, at the point where they take a dog they know will react badly to being touched out in public....

YANBU your dog was protecting you and the babies. I have a German Shepherd, last of four and now almost 12 yrs old, no one has ever approached with asking if it’s okay to touch the dog.

DH did something bloody stupid recently, considering we’ve had dogs for 20 years, with a strangers dog. A Rhodesian ridge back, calm and gentle with me as I offered my hand for her to sniff. DH reached over her head to touch the ridge on her back and she decided he wasn’t friendly and let him know by growling at him.

Hands up, I'm the sort of fanny who would do this, because I'm a sucker for a gorgeous GS. But if the dog didn't like it then that's on me, not the dog. What a wanker.

I have a young Alaskan Malamute who is super friendly , but being young I always ask people to let me get him to sit, pay attention to me, then keep your hand down, as he will lift his head up to sniff you if you try to pat his head. No malice in him at all, but he's a big dog & we are trying to ensure he doesn't pick up bad habits like jumping up
Most children ask if they can pat him, adults either think he's planning to eat them or ram a hand onto his head 🤦‍♀️

If you can stop him from doing things like, eg, running out in front of cars, I'm sure you can stop him from touching other people's animals.

This was my thought also. It sounds like he made a comment that the dog wasn't friendly and the you said what you said in a shitty tone (the ! at the end of what you said makes me think it was a bit of a shitty tone) and that's what set him off on his rant. Not getting snapped at by the dog.

Obviously he was in the wrong to have touched the dog without asking first but I'm guessing he would have just shrugged it off with "not a friendly dog then" if you hadn't have spoken in the condescending tone.

My dog is very friendly but isn't keen on children running up behind him and grabbing him (usually while shrieking too).

I am not muzzling him because parents can't be bothered to teach their children to ask if it is ok to stroke him.

He once was suddenly surrounded by about 6 young children all shrieking and grabbing at him while their mothers just stood and watched. When I had a go at them they just looked at me blankly. Poor kids having such moronic mothers

Only an idiot shoves their hand into the face of a dog they don’t know.
It’s a monumental idiot who does that while the dog is sat next to its owner and babies which it’d instinctively want to protect.
All I can recommend is a sheath that goes over the lead saying “please don’t touch me” — but that assumes these idiots can read.

A dog might bark if it was touched by a stranger. If any DC ask to pet my friendly dogs, which happens quite often because they are cute and fluffy, I tell the dog to sit first and shake a paw with DC. Then they stroke it. If a DC just came running up and touched it I think they'd bark at them.

While I completely agree with you, I wish the common sense extended the other way too. The number of times we've had dogs bounding up to us in the park or in a walk with the owner shouting 'it's fine, he's friendly!' from afar. I actually like dogs, but as a result, my son is now terrified of them (so would never approach one anyway!).

But yes, people teach your kids not to approach dogs without at least asking, but also owners teach your dogs not to go running/jumping up to random people (and if you can't, keep them on a lead). Then everyone's happy and no one gets hurt 🙂

You've got to be careful, OP - the Dangerous Dogs Act talks about "reasonable apprehension" that the dog is dangerously out of control or may injure someone.

So if your dog will snap if approached unexpectedly in public, you do really need to have her muzzled for her own sake. "Reasonable apprehension" is a bit in the eye of the beholder.

My DD has a Siberian Husky. He is super friendly with just about everyone - no guarding instincts whatsoever! (only good at pulling things). He often gets a lot of attention when we are out with him but most people do ask before actually touching him. On one occasion though we were out in their local high street waiting outside a shop and two young kids just came over and started hugging him with no warning at all. Mum was with them and made no attempt to stop them. Luckily he doesn't mind at all in fact he is happy to lap up any attention on offer, but they didn't know that and the next dog might not feel the same way. I was just gobsmacked.