To think Europen governments need to respond to immigration?

[Finlesswonder]

So the Netherlands is going to have a far right government.
Sweden has moved to the right.
Finland has shut its borders.
Countries that have traditionally been liberal are hardening and irrespective of the many issues listed its to do with immigration.

Ireland has seen violent protests last night following a series of stabbings.
In the UK we obviously had Brexit.

I think governments need to start responding to voters feelings on immigration as if they don't we will continue to see a general slide to the right in Europe, when actually these countries aren't right wing: it feels like a single issue is distorting the entire political landscape?

Too high for my liking -we haven’t added to hospitals, roads, housing (adequately). , rail, nhs etc etc for decades, far too many for any sensible persons liking

and this is down to the immigrants right?

The figure is a bit high, we need university students and other stuff but I’d try hard to get it down wherever it’s not needed

Aus is a good system for being pretty strict

On asylum I agree with @KnittedCardi the system won’t cope with climate pressure related mass migration

The difference with being leered at by English builders is we don't actually have a choice regarding them

I mean this kind of thing is just ridiculous:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/24/relatives-of-27-who-drowned-in-channel-boat-sinking-demand-answers

For all of those who welcome mass immigration, where on earth do you live? I counter its not in the densely packed inner city areas where resources are stretched to breaking point and community tensions are at an all time high?

I think people are arguing that the benefit calculation is wrong

OK. So they don't really mean "uncontrolled immigration". They mean that they disagree with the approach to controlling it.

The interesting part for me is that, when people are asked about individual groups of immigrants - such as NHS workers, carers, students etc - they are generally happy for them to be here. It would be good to hear from people about which specific groups that they would want to cut, and what impact they believe that cutting that particular group might have.

It's very difficult to know what groups to cut. A lot of posters want to exclude men from certain communities. Much of our NHS is staffed by people from these communities.Not sure we can make a clear distinction between a good immigrant and a bad immigrant.

In financial terms.... I'm not sure that it quite that straightforward in other terms. There are a lot of threads on here about DC with 4 A star at A level not being able to get onto top economics courses despite the fact that lots of foreign students are enrolled. There are quite a few threads (and I also know young people saying the same) that those who do get on those courses are then getting almost no small group tuition as the course is taught in vast lectures and a lot of the international students struggle with the language taking up big chunks of scarce seminar time as they ask the same questions week after week. Not exactly the best way to train our own talent for the financial services that are our no 1 source of revenue.

In smaller prestigious institutions like our conservatoires the course places are limited and the vast majority now go to international students despite there being more than enough UK students wanting to go (in some cases we are looking at 80 -90% international students on very in demand courses). Not exactly the best way to train our own talent for the arts that are our no 2 source of revenue.

the letter states that families still have no explanation as to why French and British authorities failed the people onboard a sinking dinghy who repeatedly called for help.

It's ridiculous for families to ask why British and French authorities let their relatives drown, knowing they were in difficulty at sea?
Really? That seems pretty cold hearted

Yeah, I mean, it's insane for the families to expect that there might be a bit of basic decency... it's almost as if they think that their relatives should have been treated like real human beings. Ridiculous indeed.

Sounds like some areas in our town.
Large, noisy gatherings (of mostly men) in town centre, rubbish and old furniture piling up in front gardens, many incidents of shoplifting...
I’m an immigrant myself, and a remainer at heart, but I must say I can’t really blame the locals in our town who decided to vote pro Brexit.

Worth £30 billion to whom? 'Economic benefit' to whom?

We don't all benefit equally from 'the economy'. This point is so often ignored or glossed over.
Migration that benefits the wealthy in this country can be of direct detriment to the poorer majority.

We are most definitely not 'all in this together'.

@Yetmorebeanstocount The Government benefits. How they choose to spend it is up to them.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/tax/record-immigration-paying-tory-tax-cuts-jeremy-hunt/

Countries do tend to move to the right in times of duress.
Theyre not going to look for the doves to protect them, they'll vote for the hawks.

Probably irrelevant to the evolving discussion, but the above^ always sticks in my mind.

Oh yes you were trying to shame me - you’re hinting that I don’t know as much as you. I can’t be bothered to come back and argue my point as I’m at work, but if you weren’t intending to shame me, perhaps use a less aggressive tone. I said none of the things that you are implying I said and saying there are ghettos of immigrants clearly doesn’t negate other ghettos.
Very simply, without proper integration there will be problems stacked on top of the social problems we already have.

Maybe you should read the link she posted, which clearly demonstrates there aren't ghettos of immigrants.

Just because you believe something, doesn't make it true. And when someone provides the information to show it isn't true, they aren't "shaming" you. They are trying to help you.

We all benefit from having enough staff for the NHS and social care services to function, and to get food from field to fork

I wasn't hinting anything. I provided to you my experiences in an attempt to juxtapose against yours, so there is a more balanced, holistic view. I was willing to have a respectful debate with you until you tried to police my tone. Aggressive because I pointed out that one of the issues you have with immigrants I have suffered from many many times from white men??? What's aggressive is labelling immigrants as angry.

I still stand by what I said misogyny and sexual harrasment is not the exclusive preserve of immigrant (muslim) men.

Sounds to me like they attempted to break the law and now the families are complaining that we didn’t save them from their own illegal actions. Maybe don’t invade other countries and you won’t die 🤷‍♀️

I hope you reported their sexual harassment to their employers as there are stringent workplace codes of conduct in place nowadays

Wow. 😮
A pregnant woman, her unborn baby and three other children were "invading"? And therefore deserve to drown?
That's shocking. Where is your humanity?

God, that's vile. @Sparthan "Invaders".Tory rhetoric has clearly worked. I hope no one here is ever in that position.

Bloody hell, that's abhorrent.