To think Europen governments need to respond to immigration?

[Finlesswonder]

So the Netherlands is going to have a far right government.
Sweden has moved to the right.
Finland has shut its borders.
Countries that have traditionally been liberal are hardening and irrespective of the many issues listed its to do with immigration.

Ireland has seen violent protests last night following a series of stabbings.
In the UK we obviously had Brexit.

I think governments need to start responding to voters feelings on immigration as if they don't we will continue to see a general slide to the right in Europe, when actually these countries aren't right wing: it feels like a single issue is distorting the entire political landscape?

Give us a budget and a geographic zone, Papy, MNers are full of people who love fantasy house shopping on RightMove.

Welsh Marches is the current thinking. Herefordshire, Monmouth, Shropshire or north Wiltshire. Nice walking (Offa's Dike, Brecons), basically agricultural area with decent access to some culture. Easy peasy, but I've been looking for "the" retirement property for years. It doesn't help that DH is 6'5" so no cottages with low ceilings. No estates, the list of DH's objections is endless. We'd like to give DC a deposit for a modest flat out of the sale of the family home, to add to the funds already saved.

I fear agricultural area and culture are pretty much mutually exclusive! But I would be interested in such a place.

If I find such a place, you strike me as a decent neighbour @bombastix . I'll tip you off! I like where we live now but our location in the SW means hours on the M5 to get north of Bristol, especially in summer.

UK is not openly racist. People keep it for behond closed door usually compared to others in our experience.

Re downsizing. I understand why people don't. Various reasons like no suitable property still with garden, not wanting to leave somewhere you lived for ddcades and decades and love it. Mainly it because it would mean moving out of the area. The area where person has friends, doctors etc. Losing familiarity and support is not good at old age, unless they really want to. Estates really should have been planned better with this in mind

It's a bit like the transgender issue - you can't suggest being against transwomen competing in women's sport or you are transphobic

You can't suggest that the UK has a shortage of housing so immigrants numbers should be controlled or you are racist

I think we see much the same at each election, people talk left but vote right.

IMO genuinely affordable childcare would make a big difference. Plenty of women would I’m sure go back to work if childcare didn’t cost more than they were going to earn.
Other countries manage it but I can’t see any U.K. govt. having the balls to introduce it, since it would inevitably mean higher taxes.

There’s a lot of invested people and organisations who would prefer it not discussed. They’ll squash it pretty hard. And that’s before you get to the huge illegal trafficking industry who profits. For the gender stuff too - many invested.

Imo it’ll be harder than Aus as more laws apply outside the one country, and we may see more extremes before politicians act

But ime once the issue is acted on it’s bi partisan and both sides just accept policies and drop it from the conversation

Affordable childcare I agree is the difference between women having employment or not when they have children. The UK is far behind Denmark where this is available, and women of childbearing age have high levels of employment.

The issue about care is that it is mostly women that do it, and a few generations ago marriage was common, so the financial risk this meant was not as significant.

But now that has changed for many. Women need employment in order not to be in poverty in their old age and not on state pensions. State pensions are not enough for s good life alone. It's poverty.

pat yourself on the back then for being the least racist. Tolerance my foot

Why so much aggro? It’s my experience having lived in a few countries

Maybe you’ve had the opposite

How do you know how people on here interact with others anyway.

If

No thats not true at all, there is universal agreement on controlling immigration within both Lab and Conservative, even on here.

What worked for Australia wont work in Europe: Numbers far higher, no empty Islands off shore & the numbers agreed with Rwanda, even if it went ahead as per the original agreement, are not enough to deter, let alone deal with the numbers coming across the Med.

As far as i can see, the ECHR is being used in the same way the GRA is blamed, neither deal with the underlying issues.

Getting rid of the ECHR, wont stop migrants coming to Europe, they'll still be rescued in the Med and the channel, even if they weren't & left to to drown, most would still arrive on our shores and then what? or do we deliberately sink the boats before they land?

Bear in mind the boats are so over crowed/flimsy, they'd sink if forcibly turned back.

I think immigrants get their info online,also traffickers info, but if they thought they might get sent to Rwanda….-that type of info would spread quite quickly and deter them.If they thought they might get sent to Reanda if the came to uk then they’d stay in Europe.

You can say they wouldn’t believe it/it wouldn’t work but in the absence of any other ideas it’s worth a try.

They think they might die and they still come. Thinking they might go to Rwanda doesn't seem like a massive threat in comparison.

It's an interesting idea for councils to build residential sheltered housing to help free up family houses. My problem is that the gov provided services are always so basic and run down - we have council housing on our street - the garden is not maintained - it looks like a shit-hole, aesthetics never seem to be a council priority but I'd think living in a nice environment is a priority for most people who think about downsizing.

Why don't they look after their own garden like the rest

I don't think it's just affordability of childcare. It's also the set up. Until certain age children should be dropped off and picked up. That will obviously prevent people, mainly women from ft employment.
I know someone with 11 year old who could just hop on 1 bus and then it's 3 min home. Nope, can't do it. Meanwhile my friends on mainland (differ countries) send their younglings happily off and at 11 you are absolutely expected to be able to go by yourself and be at home after school by yourself for few hours and not burn the house down. Even earlier usually. I know most leave 7 year olds home when they go do a weeekly shop etc. Obvious depends on the 7 year old though and maturity. Used to be even more free before! 6 year olds roaming streets and parks until sundown😂

With respect, how is the selling of your " large 4 bedroom home" and downsizing going to assist with the housing crisis? The housing crisis is borne of a shortage of affordable homes... I very much doubt immigrants new to the country and people existing on nmw incomes are going to be able to afford your home! It does have the potential to be converted into a HMO though although I'm not sure your neighbours in the little cul -de-sac would be on-board with that?

With respect, how is the selling of your " large 4 bedroom home" and downsizing going to assist with the housing crisis?

Exactly. There are 4 bedroom homes for sale up and down the country - for those that can afford them. Downsizing by itself isn't going to make any of them more affordable for families.

Well a property ladder - 1 bed needs 2 - 2 bed needs 3 - 3 bed needs 4 - voila

Honestly 🤷 I despair at how out of touch some people are!

The root of the housing crisis in the UK is the national obsession with houses and "having a garden to potter around in"

That's just a basic which should come with a house... Otherwise what is the point of a house really.

Nvm. I misread sorry.

What I'm saying is if we had a culture of aspirational apartment living like in other European countries I don't think we'd have as much of a problem