To think it’s crazy you can parent whatever way you want?!

[ItsGivingJudgey]

This OP will sound judgey has hell hence my username. I’ve NC but long time user.

I know it’s a free country (in the UK at least). I also really support human rights, however I still find it mad that you can have a child and raise them whatever way you want no matter how batshit so long as it doesn’t meet the very high legal requirements for removal.

Examples:

ONE:

My SIL does F all with her child and he’s now 2.5 years old. He literally does not leave the house other than for absolute essentials such as medical appointments. He doesn’t go to nursery despite it being free (she doesn’t work). He’s never been swimming, to feed the ducks, to the beach or the local park. He’s never met other children outside of his cousins. He’s only ever been to soft play twice when I have physically picked them up to take them with me and my dc.
He only ever leaves the house when my in-laws take him food shopping with them just to get him out. He can literally go 1-2 weeks without being outside his front door.
SIL on the other hand goes on holidays, days out with her boyfriend, cocktails with friends etc. She just has the in-laws babysit when she does. Her reasoning? ‘It’s a faff’ ‘the weather is bad’ or she ‘can’t be arsed today’. She was very lazy before becoming a parent but her laziness now has extended to her child who literally lives his entire life within the confines of the house. It’s nothing to do with mental health on her part, it’s pure laziness. She’ll only take him out if a member of the family with a car physically goes and picks them up and drops them back off home. The nursery is less than a 5 minute walk from her house. She was badgered by the health visitor to enroll him so she did it, took him for a week and then never bothered again as it was ‘too much faffing about for just a few hours’.

He lives off microwave meals and tinned food. Wakes up and spends the entire day in front of the tv or with his tablet. When my in-laws went away last year he didn’t leave the house for 3 weeks!!

It doesn’t meet the legal requirements or thresholds for social services. He is fed and clothed and has lots of toys. But it’s crazy that he is able to spend his entire life within the confines of a house and that’s that.

TWO:

My cousin. Very well educated, affluent and has always been a bit eccentric as is her DH. However over the years they have joined a kind of weird religion/cult like group and are massive conspiracy theorists. They homeschool their kids (fine), but have indoctrinated them with mad beliefs. The kids including the baby are vegan. Their unvaccinated. They can only bath in this specially filtered water. The kids are feral and not allowed to watch tv, listen to any type of mainstream music only this specifically selected whale like music. They avoid any type of radiation and limit sources of power so in the evenings the house is lit by candlelight and an open fire. The kids wear this robe like clothing that seems impractical. The kids no nothing outside of their parents beliefs. They have no awareness of the outside world. They only socialise with the other people in this conspiracy group that also homeschool.

My cousin and her husband are well meaning and obviously it’s their right to believe what they wish. But their kids won’t know how to use the internet, any real world references, learn about other religions or cultures. Surely this will do long term harm in some way?

The children couldn’t tell you what spaghetti bolognaise is or what a smartphone/tablet is or that there was ever a world war or even how what a kettle
is for. But they can tell you about crystal healing powers. What if when they get to 18 they want to live a ‘mainstream’ life and join society? How will they manage? Get a job? Make friends with peers?

It’s not that I believe there’s only one right way to parent or anything because I don’t. However I find it mad that you can have a baby and so long as you meet very basic standards, you can literally do as you want with actual human beings.

Please tell me if I’m being unreasonable to think it’s not right and if I am being unreasonable why so? I feel so sorry for these children.

No, there isn’t, because the local authority know that we don’t need one. They know that we’re giving our children a personalised 1-2-1 education and that statistically home educated children/teens have equal or better outcomes in life than schooled kids 😊

In additional to my previous message, can I ask why have you or his grandparents not taken him to a park? I do understand he’s not your responsibility but he’s family and surely family have to look out for each other. She may be a lost cause but it sounds like you and his grandparents have a chance to help this poor boy MASSIVELY, and maybe aren’t? You sound as though you live close by with children a similar age, can you not just take it upon yourself to do more? I’d not sit by while my nieces and nephews were treated like this I’d not sleep at night!

This is just so incredibly sad.

SIL I would consider to be neglectful - it isn’t just about having enough food, she isn’t meeting his other needs such as socialisation.

She seems very self centred and can obviously be bothered to go out when it’s a jolly for her.

Exactly this.
Going by what I've read on this thread op drives and has kids a similar age. It is surely as easy as just picking the kid up and taking him on family days out (dosent have to be big and expensive could just be a picknick in the park or just spending time together)
Ops kids would probably love being with their cousin and the boy will be getting out and experiencing the world. It's a win for everyone

I've always gone on the theory most people can create a baby but not all are capable of looking after them unfortunately. We have a horrid neighbour, I'm sure she has additional needs she shouts constantly at her two children. The eldest tried to stab her and lives elsewhere, the middle boy goes a special school and the youngest who is a girl always looks like her clothes are bobbly and well worn. She always get takeaways and has amazon deliveries and doesn't work. She had an altercation with a neighbour in another close near by blamed her sons needs and not getting help and people don't know what she puts up with. She always has a skip every few months god know where she gets the c*rap she puts in it or the money.

She can't be reported to social services I imagine because she will say the children are looked after and we'll fed as are her 3 dogs and cat.

OP when you say SIL situation doesn’t meet the threshold, has all this been reported? I agree with PP he wouldn’t be removed for this, but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be eligible for support as a child in need.

How is he behaving around family taking him out is very telling, especially trying to get out and crying when brought back.

This 👏👏 So many misconceptions about home ed on this thread.
We do it because it's wonderful, our children are having the best childhood and quite frankly they know more about the world than most of their schooled friends. They aren't indoctrinated, they are out in the world. They have lots of friends from their various clubs, both home ed and school kids. They are happy, healthy, confident and well balanced young people. As are their home ed friends. Home ed kids are a joy to be around, they play for much longer than school kids because they dont feel any pressure to grow up too soon. They converse well with adults and when they are interested in a topic, they deep dive into it and love to talk about it. Most of them are still interested in the latest trends, they aren't all totally sheltered and wearing gowns. They are just normal children from normal families, who have made a big investment in their children's education and happiness.

I've often thought this OP, that there should be some sort of 'licence' you have to have to be allowed to procreate. Far far too many terrible, lazy or downright abusive people having kids without the slightest forethought. At least something like what is required for adoption. You can't say this IRL though.

A few points

Whilst I believe the first would probably count as neglect, it's interesting that those of us that had babies in 2020 were legally not allowed to take our children anywhere. For nearly two years our children were not allowed consistently on day trips, socialisation and softplay. When I raised this at the time with a health visitor she said all baby needs is mum. Except the studies coming out of COVID have identified that as bullshit. It actually took me a while to do proper outings and things because I had it drummed into me that going out was bad and staying home was enough. You just kind of get used to staying home all day and playing with the same toys and reading the same books.
I just think it's interesting three years down the line what we were forced to do is largely being agreed as neglect on here. I seem to recall at the time the consensus was if you took your kid to the park you were an evil granny killer.

Point two the NHS says a well planned vegan or vegetarian diet is suitable for all stages of life. So you are very much wrong about that. I find it interesting that you dislike cults but there is no bigger cult and lies than the meat industry. I'm all for live and let live (or die in the case of meat eaters) but really most meat eaters peddle such absolute rubbish about the welfare origins and health benefits of their food whilst chugging down proven cancer causing animal products. Every bit as cult like as anything in your op if you ask me.

Homeschooling is a valid choice but like school it needs to be well planned and carried out for good results. It's rapidly becoming the only choice for Sen families.

Anti vac is a bit of a broad brush. Huge difference between those parents who won't allow any vaccinations and those who are hesitant for their children to become COVID vaccination Guinea pigs.

If you work within neurodiversity and mental health you'll know how common it is for women to have nd conditions or mental health problems ignores by professionals. Don't become one of them.

Report neglect. Step up to support your own family.

WTF 😲

I’m not sure I believe this. You seem to know an awful lot about the exact ins and outs of the lives of these kids.

If he never went out he’d probably have a vitamin D deficiency. I don’t think any of this is true.

Parents cannot parent however they want.

There has undoubtedly been a huge impact on DC (and their parents), but being in a pandemic situation is obviously a very different context.

This government were an absolute shambles and exploited the situation for their own gains. They dithered at the start and mismanaged things, like Sunak’s eat out policy, which led to harsh rebound restrictions.

Even with the most restricted measures though, PP describing going out looking at leaves, splashing in puddles etc could all still happen during pandemic times. If SIL was interacting with him in this way even now I don’t think a concern would be there.

To be fair, she has a point.

I recommend you read Oranges and Sunshine by Margaret Humphreys. Very interesting but profoundly sad and shocking book.

This is my experience too.

The funniest thing people say about home Ed kids is ‘how will they be prepared for the real world?’ totally missing the entire point of home ed which is that they are IN the real world everyday 😂 not sat in an institution for most of their childhood being told what and how to learn to pass tests (with other kids the exact same ages as them only) or which will never happen again in their lives (obviously other than further education in some cases). They are in museums, on trains, in parks, at exhibitions, traveling, in shops, in cafes, in sports centres, in forests at forest school, with friends, parents, grandparents, at workshops etc etc everyday.

So you would either happily have the rights to your own body removed, or you would be happy for women to be imprisoned and they be forced into abortions they don’t want, or would you go for the method of drowning new born babies of parents who don’t pass your assessments?

Now I feel like I'm reading some bad dystopian fiction

Exactly. SIL does sound like a terrible parent but OP does have some power to improve things.

He's not getting some of his basic needs met (being ignored all day, potentially poorly nourished, socially isolated). I'd argue this is neglect and you should report to social services. They are not all about removing kids. They also work with and educate families. They may be able to help her, or she may be beyond help if she has failed to bond with her child. Either way, you need to do something.

20 years ago this idea would’ve HORRIFIED me. Then I became a teacher.

Some people should not be allowed to have children.

Because people point out what an exceptionally stupid idea it is.

@Dotjones
Bloody hell! Bit much… Don’t think that’s really very appropriate.

@Blueink as I said it was more of an observation than anything.
Many countries like those in Spain and Malaysia could not " going out looking at leaves, splashing in puddles etc could all still happen during pandemic times.". Children stuck in high rise flats without going outside for months at a time.

And don't forget in England you were not allowed to drive anywhere for your 'daily walk'. Fine for those in the country, but those in the city were rather limited.

But I just think it's interesting I was one of the very few who said it was having too much of a terrible impact on children to be justified. Just interesting how when I wanted to provide my child with an all round human experience sitting iny house for two years with the occasional walk and family visit when the restrictions lifted was deemed ok, but people are unanimous it's abuse in another context.

Regardless of 'reasons', it's the same impact on the child. We were forced to neglect our children.