To wonder if this is just what secondary school is like?

[Notmyusual80]

DD is 14, in year 9. She loved primary - always wanted to go in, got excited about the simplest activities/events and got involved with everything.

Now I know secondary is very, very different - more pressure (especially as she goes to a grammar), more independence expected of them etc. But I just feel like her school is slowly grinding her down.

The emphasis is on tests and perfect uniform. If someone misbehaves, they all get shouted at, all the time. In fact it feels like their approach is to assume they’re all badly behaved (even though she’s clearly not) and are hard on them all just in case, iyswim. She hasn’t bonded with any of her teachers and some of them just seem really harsh disciplinarians. She also finds a lot of the lessons uninspiring.

She’s successfully put herself forward for several roles (think school council etc) and then….nothing…there have been no activities associated with the roles she’s supposed to be doing. They’re just titles.

And so far, she’s been on two trips since year 7. That’s it. I know they need to focus on work/study but would a little fun here and there hurt? My secondary years were great fun and I still managed to do well.

She’s just not enjoying school now and doesn’t look forward to going in.

I feel like she started off an eager, proactive, enthusiastic student and they’ve totally knocked this out of her.

Is this just what secondary is like now? And if not, what can I do? There are no opportunities to give this kind of feedback and even if I did, how can I get this across without it sounding like “DD is not enjoying school and finds it boring” which is how it’s going to sound isn’t it?

I'm a secondary school teacher in a challenging school- what you describe isn't typical from my 20+ years teaching here, nor in other schools I know.

@GreyhpundGirl thank you - interesting to hear a teacher’s perspective.

I know I went to school a million years ago but I remember feeling comfortable having discussions and debates in class with teachers, and even having a laugh with them sometimes. That sounds completely out of the question at her school. The one teacher she really liked left after one year. That’s another thing - staff turnover seems pretty high which probably says a lot.

The relationships are what make the job. Yes you need to run a tight ship in the classroom but it's important children feel secure in asking questions and just generally talking to adults- that's how they learn. I love my year 11s for example, they make me smile. I don't know how anyone could work as a teacher without seeming like they like children!

My DS is in year 11 and has only been on 1 trip which was in year 7.

His secondary school is completely joyless in my opinion. There are NO activities for Christmas. Not even a special assembly or Christmas lunch.

All they do is lessons and tests.

We used to have concerts, school productions and all sorts of activities, especially at Christmas. We also used to have a trip to a theme park every year in the summer, in addition to educational trips throughout the year. We also had parties, discos and dress down days.

I thought it was just his school but my friends say their DC schools are similar too. One of my friends DC has never been on a school trip at all, even in primary. At least mine had that.

I'd be taking a close look at the leadership. This kind of atmosphere tends to come from the top.

Also go and visit the credible alternatives (if they have spaces for in-year admission).

Don't fanny about, OP. If you get much closer to GCSEs, you'll be stuck.

I don't think it's a grammar thing @Notmyusual80 , my DD is at a grammar, and if anything we've been pleasantly surprised how little homework, how much extra curricular and enrichment they do, lessons very inspiring and the pastoral is second to none. This is also one of the top performing schools in the country so they have a reputation to uphold, but that pressure is not being passed on to the girls. My daughter is happier than she's ever been. Meanwhile the local comp is more what you've described, teachers coming down like a tonne of bricks for the slightest infringement, uninspiring lessons etc.

You are definitely right about the grammar aspect also not being the be all and end all though, if your child isn't happy, they won't fulfill their potential. I hope you manage to sort the problems for your DD. It's so tough isn't it when you feel your kids are unhappy.

Not all secondaries are like that. Mine went to our local comp - we are not in a grammar school area - and although nothing is ever perfect, they had a very good experience. Uniform sensibly handled and not draconian, bullying on the other hand very well tackled for both of mine when it happened. It was a big school, very mixed catchment, but everyone had opportunities to be stretched academically if they wanted it. Youngest was a prefect and peer mentor - this involved actual activities, teacher support, training and rewards. And they both came away with an armful of grades 7 - 9.

This was my DD's experience of secondary school too. Not a grammar, but a girls church school.

She left in June and was absolutely adamant she wasn't going to a school sixth form for year 12. She's at the local college and is much happier.

It is hard to tell from your OP.

1. It could be that the grammar is not suitable for her. They can be very traditional in style.
2. No secondary is going to be like a lovely primary school. Secondaries are huge schools where the emphasis is on grades and exams. This can mean they are a bit stern and less fun. They also need to be strict with rules as teens can quickly become poorly behaved.
3. The comp might be more relaxed but not necessarily. It could be similarly strict or it could have lots of low level disruption which is annoying and difficult if your child wants to get on and learn.

I think I would be very careful about moving. I would look around the comp and if possible ask if she could do a couple of trial days. This would allow her to see the school in reality and decide if it would suit her.

Not all secondary schools are joyless. Definitely look around. If you’re anywhere near Latymer I’ve heard it’s quite relaxed and loads of extra curricular activities. Their drama performances are West End quality. (That’s if you want to try another grammar school).

OP, that sounds rubbish, and it does not correspond to the experience my DC had at their secondary schools.

Just a school that makes an effort to build the kids up and give them some sort of sense that they care about them is all I really want

I think that's a very good aspiration. Pupils should feel on the whole that they matter and are valued for who they are. If a school isn't doing this, it is doing something wrong.

Sounds like an exam factory.

Some schools are some schools aren't.

Maybe ask around locally or try to find out the reputations of the schools.

If she's not desperately unhappy I don't think I would move her at this stage. If the move doesn't work she'll be in Year 10 and stuck. In 2.5 years she can leave and go elsewhere for sixth form, which is basically what I did. Does she do much outside of school? When I look back I have very neutral feelings about school, I didn't enjoy it but also wasn't unhappy. But I had a really good hobby outside school which I have my happiest memories from. And I really enjoyed my sixth form years at a college.

She's in Y9 - has already done more than two years!

My oldest son went to our local grammar. Thrived, no issues. Plenty of trips and sports etc. But hardly any arts (which he has no interest in). Now at uni and no negative memories. In fact he really liked school. Got on sports teams, sports trips etc.

My daughter has started at the rural comp this year; small, arty focused school with lots of trips/ clubs/ shows etc. So far so good. Early days of course. She would have been lost at the grammar. It’s v v strict, (a bit OTT I think), but the teams, clubs, performing arts and trips out etc stuff makes up for it. She’s had 3 trips (local, day trips) so far and she’s in yr 7. She would have hated the grammar. Maybe it’s worth exploring the other school.

My kids school is not like this. It's a comp that gets good results and is slightly old fashioned and strict, but not nearly as dull and depressing as your dd's school seems to be. Plenty of lunchtime clubs, plenty of school trips.

I'm wondering why you picked that particular school for your dd?

Thank you all. And the PP who said I shouldn’t fanny around with GCSEs approaching - I know, and this stresses me out! I’ve mentioned to her about changing schools and she's not overly keen - worried that it might be a case of out of the frying pan into the fire…going to try to get her to at least look at a school, though, if I can.

I just feel so gutted and deflated for her - all that enthusiasm she has just gone down the pan.

@DisquietintheRanks when we were choosing schools, it was in the thick of the pandemic so all we had as a guide were videos that each of the schools had made. Found it an impossible task. ☹️

Well I went to a comp and there was a lot of mass discipline / keeping the whole class back during break time for a few badly behaved kids so it’s not necessarily a grammar thing. I hated it! It did improve when we were put in sets / subject choices for GCSE (most of the really naughty kids left then).

My DCs school does hardly any trips which I do find a bit sad too. I loved trips.

If she’s doing well and not really unhappy I’d probably persevere until 6th form.

I can't wait for my DD Y10 to finish her GCSEs and put secondary school behind us. I used to think we chose a good school but it feels like it's gradually declining and I hate having to constantly counsel my girls through it.
The endless poor behaviour and low level disruption, lack of discipline, or too much discipline which makes the (good) kids afraid. Teachers failing to adequately teach the curriculum, constant policing of girls uniforms (but not boys), shortened break times, unreasonable rules around use of toilets, lack of teaching staff, dull lessons, lack of attention to boys harassing of girls, lack of spaces for children to eat or relax together...
It's ruined education for my daughter who really enjoyed school before. I don't even think it's particularly the fault of teachers who now have to spend half their time being social workers.
I've been helping out with exam invigilating and honestly you couldn't pay me enough to be a teacher for what they have to cope with every day, but I wish they would pay them well and get actually decent teachers who last more than a year or two.
It's grim honestly and disappointing because although I know secondary school is a bit shit for most kids, I have generally good memories of it, and I loved learning. I'm sad she's lost her feel for it because of how miserable an experience it is most weeks.

@Z0rr0 sounds so similar to DD’s experience. The obsession with the bloody uniform gets on my nerves for one thing! And I can absolutely sympathise with you feeling like you’re “counselling her through it.”

@Spinderellaseverywhere that’s the thing, she’s really starting to become unhappy 😞

I don’t know many of my children’s friends who truly enjoyed secondary school. Non of my kids did and non of their secondary schools were truly nurturing or child centred in any meaningful way. All mine relived to find training/work/college a suitable mature environment which played to their skills and interests

@Notmyusual80 It makes me so sad that she's just not enjoying it and actively dreads it at the end of holidays / Sunday night.
And she's a pretty good student, she just shouldn't have to put up, with all the other crap that's going on.
My first daughter who has just started uni had the same experience but she is more self confident so was better able to shrug off the crap, but my Y10 DD has quite low self esteem and has to really work hard to understand the tougher subjects and that's made umpteen times more difficult with all the disruption and the often rubbish teaching.
We're not at a grammar, it's a regular church comp in Surrey, but not a posh part of Surrey.
I'm really sorry your DD is feeling similarly. It's so disheartening. I think the education system is just another thing that's broken in this country tbh.

I went to a grammar and some of this sounds hideously familiar. They absolutely don't relax because they have the smart kids - their job is to take the smart kids and get amazing exam results from them, before they all go to the right uni and become lawyers or doctors. That creates a very hot house environment and in the case of my school, one that activity made the kids feel less smart than they were. We'd get marked a B- for essays that were an easy A or A* when marked by exam boards. It's hard not to have your self esteem knocked when you think you are delivering great work - because you are - and are always told it's more like not bad work.
In the case of girls' grammars, that competitive hot house can become an easy breeding ground for all sorts of mental health issues, most notably eating disorders. Thankfully there is much more of a conversation around that these days but back in the 90s I think we were all a bit of a mess but no-one ever talked about it.
What doesn't sound familiar though it the lack of trips and extra curriculars. Mine very much encouraged girls to do hockey, tennis etc clubs and we had theatre trips, history trips and so on. It sounds like your daughter's has an odd mix of pushing for success but not adding in some of the extras that are a huge part of that.
I'd look at the alternatives with her. It might be moving her away from friends and a familiar environment really isn't for the best, but making it the most informed decision possible probably is.

Ger your daughter out while you can.

That school sounds like a gulag.

Try the local comprehensive, she may flourish there, as it won't be an exam factory, and may enjoy more holistic lessons like food tech or art. She'll be able to "breathe" better.