To think State education is really poor?

[Boswelian]

We sent our eldest to a taster day at a private school. He was agog. His school don't allow playing on the grass when it's wet. The private school change them into waterproofs and wellies for break. PE 3x a week. Sport every day. Dedicated specialist teaching in art, DT, languages, sciences etc. 16 in a class instead of 30. The difference in the quality of life between the two school has really blown my mind. The state school is "outstanding". The private school reckon DS is 2 years behind their curriculum. We've been told in state that he's meeting expectations. How is this remotely acceptable?

This is a joke isn’t it 🧐

Each kid for themselves generally until it gets to year 11 and the schools scant resources are directed that way to get the grades up, so maybe an extra maths or English class after school to make up for substitute teachers and huge class sizes before that year. Also a time where any parents who can get together a bit of money for private tution do so. Definitely no pizza aid bacon sarnies and limited ‘hand holding’ from school.

Interestingly, I have just asked the question on Google and every site states that state school educated students outperform privately educated students.

Really 🤔 Hope that’s sarcastic

‘Private schools achieve significantly better public exam results at GCSE, A Level and IB than state schools. For instance, privately educated pupils are around twice as likely to achieve top grades (A*/A at A Level, 9-7 at GCSE) than their state-educated peers.’

www.simplylearningtuition.co.uk › ...
State vs Private School - London - Simply Learning Tuition

It shows the bubble in which some people live and the echo chambers they create. There are many people who drive shit cars, plenty more who can't afford to run a car and others who are struggling to keep their children warm and fed. Affording private school fees is something that is beyond their wildest dreams. Sending a child to private school and virtue signalling modest houses and cars is just tone deaf.

If the ignorant comments on threads like these are representative of the perspective of the group in society that will be most hit by VAT, maybe steeper fees could be a good catalyst for getting a better handle on reality. For the ones whose children do switch over to the state sector, they could even end up mixing with such disadvantaged children and start their adult lives a bit more enlightened than their parents.

Actually it was a poster supporting VAT brought up cars.

FYI it isn't tone deaf, it is explaining that we all make choices. You realise that many people do have disposable income and it isn't a crime to have that. Some of us just choose to spend that on education rather than bigger houses etc. We would have the disposable income anyway and if we pulled DD out of private school I could give up work and therefore cease contributing through taxes.

There is a very sinister undertone to some posters whereby it is frowned upon to earn more than others and therefore how dare we complain when some people can't even get a job/are on minimum wage. At every lebel of society there will always be people who in the world who earn more than others and I shouldn't be cancelled from expressing my opinion because we are comfortably off. Nothing to do with being tone deaf at all.

Being angry at people who have more money than you is fruitless and a waste of effort. There are lots of people with a lot more money than us, we don't spend our time begrudging them this as I am not that sort of person.

’..they could even end up mixing with such disadvantaged children and start their adult lives a bit more enlightened than their parents’

Yet another example of inverse snobbery . Yet another totally misguided suggestion. Do you think the parents of all private school children also went to private school? 🙈

People are so blinded by the fact some are wealthier than others, that they have little idea (nor do they care to have), about the lives of those people.

Ok but you can still pay VAT. The unfair disadvantages that private education brings can also be discussed and recognised when you spend your disposable income.

Both DH and I were state educated.
Maybe you would also like to pass your bigoted speech onto my 2 friends who are both teachers in outstanding state schools and both send tyeor DC to private schools

You have shown your bias and bigotry about private schools/parents/kids.

The courts will ultimately decide.

Your first sentence evidences my points beautifully. A very key point is that we don't all have those types of choices to make.

You have no idea what my personal financial position yet seem to assume that because I see the bigger picture, that I must not be able to afford private school fees, be angry and jealous. You are very off the mark on all counts but my own personal circumstances are wholly irrelevant to this.

I am not at all angry and I haven't a clue what sinister undertones you are alluding to. I just find it so depressing that in 2024, after years of austerity and suffering for so many, all the self-pity around private school fees going up a bit. You would think the end of the world was coming when you read some posts. If it does, rest assured it won't be because of VAT on UK private school fees. Your children will all be fine, not least because they have such invested parents.

Of course, everyone is free to express their opinions and complain. The reader is also free to gauge how much sympathy they feel in response. There is a spectrum of reasons why this sympathy may not be in line with the expectations of the writer. It's lazy and disingenuous if people assume that it is just because they must be jealous in some way. We are adults, not primary school children. It might open minds a bit if other valid reasons were actually considered.

Wow, someone is rattled.

If you read my post properly, it is pretty obvious that I am not talking about all private school parents. It's not private schools or private school parents per se that I have an issue with, it's the ignorance of relative privilege.

There are many private school parents who will see the bigger picture, realise their own privileged position and will either pay up with VAT or leave private education if they decide it is no longer viable for them. They are most likely not the ones on here fixating on the possible imposition of VAT and how unfair they think it is.

Of course, money and education buy a certain level of understanding of the way the world works and make some shit easier to deal with.

it's pretty crass, however, to suggest that richer people somehow don't struggle with the challenges that life throws at them. Imagine saying to someone with life-limiting illness that it's OK because they've got plenty of money in the bank.

This is what I came to say but @ForlornLindtBear said it better

being able to make choices like this is a luxury within itself that many many people don’t have.

I have nothing against people choosing to spend their own money however they wish, but my sympathy only stretches so far to people spending thousands of pounds to advantage their children but complaining about fees going up a bit (when most likely if you can afford to pay the fees you can afford a little more?). Some people are struggling to even feed their children and keep their home warm.

Your experience of private schools may be wonderful where everyone is kind and “normal” but that doesn’t reflect every private school experience, much like “state schools are shit” doesn’t actually reflect every state school in the country. The fact the remains that private schools are elitist by their very existence and arguably there is something to be discussed there. This is certainly not the experiences I have heard (from Suffolk/Berkshire/Cambridge)

I also feel “well I didn’t spend my money on a fancy car but school fees instead” isn’t some sort of moral defense.

Doctors who have had to contend with all you listed without private healthcare or the buffer and privilege of private education and money will still be better at handling stress and understanding patients in similar circumstances ie the majority. I have read an article saying the same.

I have read an article saying the same.

Oh well it must be true then.

HumourM3, rather than arguing with posters, wouldn't it be easier if you just said ‘I hate all rich people, particularly posh ones’?

🤣

No it’s been my lived reality and many others like me for years and years, hence the burnout.

Privately educated pupils might perform better at GCSE and A level, but every article that came up when I googled about university education said that state educated students with the same A level grades do better at degree level.

Interestingly that research, from 10yrs ago, only took into account 3yr degrees.

So not Medicine, Veterinary Science, Architecture.. Nothing involving a year abroad, many degrees do that.

I’d be interested to see more up to date, more valid research.

All this obsession with outcomes. We, and many others, didn't choose private for outcomes. It only seems to be opponents if private schools who are obsessed with which sector achieves better results. I'm more concerned with the whole journey..

Not schools then, more individual student motivation. Maybe because state school kids that do do well, have to fight within the system and be far more motivated with poorer resources to come out with decent A level grades which carries through to degree.

Not true. You are referencing one type of private school. In many selectives there is near obsession with leaver destinations - Oxbridge, Medicine, Ivy League etc. Their PR leans heavily on precisely that.

You don’t represent all parents who decide to privately educate. You can’t talk on their behalf. Of course independents are going to market their academic success but that doesn’t mean every parent looking for a place is interested in the academic side of things. All schools - both state and private - offer more than results.