To think State education is really poor?

[Boswelian]

We sent our eldest to a taster day at a private school. He was agog. His school don't allow playing on the grass when it's wet. The private school change them into waterproofs and wellies for break. PE 3x a week. Sport every day. Dedicated specialist teaching in art, DT, languages, sciences etc. 16 in a class instead of 30. The difference in the quality of life between the two school has really blown my mind. The state school is "outstanding". The private school reckon DS is 2 years behind their curriculum. We've been told in state that he's meeting expectations. How is this remotely acceptable?

Could not agree more.

@Teentaxidriver I have no problems with differentiation in education, teaching differently able kids different things in different ways. But the 11 plus is a bonkers way to do this and grammar or not is far far too narrow and option. The German system is much better around this.

You’re not being goady; you’ve hit the nail right on the head. It’s the same with Law - private students have had much better access to debating and broader discussions. It doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to apply for and be successful in these fields. It just means we need to address the often low standards (I don’t mean individual teaching standards) and lack of extra-curricular opportunities in state schools! I say this from experience. When I have taught in state schools, I have had to teach to the test and everyone, including me, is constantly assessed and scrutinised. It’s frankly exhausting, very narrow and often boring. When I have taught in private schools, I’ve been told ‘teach whatever the hell you like as long as at the end of the year they’ve covered these things…’ That makes for much more inspiring and I treating teaching abd learning

You are talking about so-called country grammar schools. These are a totally different beast from super-selective grammar schools. They are just like excellent comprehensive schools in good locations. It is much easier to get into a country grammar that accepts even 25% of the local cohort than super-selective grammars that live off their glory and may not be great schools anymore. No, I have not said all of them are like that. And if only they were downgraded because of safeguarding issues, etc. No, two of the most competitive grammar schools near me went from Outstanding to Good because of far from outstanding teaching. It is a shame that talented kids are driving the results, and they don't have outstanding teaching—worse than local outstanding comprehensive schools.

North London Grammar School - Ofsted Inadequate
Menorah Grammar School - Ofsted Inadequate
Colchester Royal Grammar School- Ofsted Inadequate
and many many went from Oustanding to Good:
Only a third of ‘outstanding’ grammar schools inspected since 2021 have kept an unconditional top grade, casting doubts on calls to revive selection.

Regarding that Labour "thing", I am Green and don't vote Labour. I would even open more grammar schools but only if they provided adequate teaching. I am against super-selective grammars that don't make an effort to provide a super education and are taking advantage of their fame. For example, a local grammar school downgraded from Outstanding to Good decided to advertise for a marketing manager role. Just as the private schools do. One would think they would look for changes in the teaching staff instead...

So two thirds are state applicants, its dreadful that private schools are so over represented with the same grades! State schools are just as capable of helping with personal statements and have experienced staff. If you are saying it’s down to personal statements somebody else has input in that isn’t ok. Actually I’d much rather have a doctor not born into privilege and who had real life experience.

Bull shit state school kids do get the grades and do better at uni. There are plenty of debating opportunities in the state sector( although I’m not exactly sure why that would make you a better doctor).The state pupils applying will have stonking good predicted grades.

@HumourM3

😂 ‘Actually I’d much rather have a doctor not born into privilege and who had real life experience’

I prefer my doctors to be competent . Don’t give a fig about their background. I’m not that judgemental.

Friend has been privately educated throughout. She had 6 different chemistry teachers in 6th form, and they say that state schools have a teacher retention programme 🤷‍♀️

‘Bull shit state school kids … do better at uni’

No no. We’ve been through this. Research shows otherwise in many cases. But don’t let facts get in the way of your prejudice and inverse snobbery.

I think it makes a difference in how you’re treated. And how you communicate is part of being a doctor. As they all go to the same unis with high qualifications it’s a given they’re competent..

No it didn’t.

You think so? Uhmmm

Germany give income tax relief to parents who use private schools.

Some countries understand reducing the state burden for education

Which is the opposite to Labour

I'm sure loads of people have said this already but it's an incredibly mixed bag. My daughter's at an excellent state school. It's an inner city school, very diverse with over 50% of pupils from a deprived background. Also a high % of pupils with English as a second language - but still it's great! The exam results are higher than average, the behaviour is good. We couldn't be happier with the education she's getting.
A neighbouring school has a similar demographic but performs nowhere near as well.
I myself went to a failing comprehensive. It was so bad that it almost closed several times when I was there. But still, I have loads of friends who got excellent exam results, went on to get 1st class degrees and have very good careers. I'm sure people imagine they went to the best private school, but quite the opposite. I

I know all about Greece. Greece is a different country with different economic and socio-economic characteristics. This is the UK and if the UK Government decides that VAT will be payable on private school fees, it will. From what was said yesterday in Labour's pre-manifesto seven steps communication, VAT is going to happen.

OK yes dear

The point is that there is a state provision. Whether you personally consider it to be decent is wholly irrelevant to this. A decision to reject that provision and opt to pay for something you consider to be much better is clearly a luxury (note dictionary definition: something expensive that is pleasant to have but is not necessary)

Not all luxury items are subject to VAT granted but some obviously are and Labour has decided that this one will be. It all seems quite straightforward.

I'll take that as you don't have any counter argument to what I said.

Wouldn’t it be nice if these things were available in the state sector. Aren’t these things basic schooling? Why can’t every child have these things l?

Because most people refuse to pay for them.

Countries with better education funding tax lower earners way more than we do in the IK.

I think you mean 'Because most people cannot afford them'?

Errr… because Gove rewrote the NC and now it’s a huge, unwieldy thing with far too much to cover (we have to in State). It’s totally unfit for purpose.

Take it however you want. VAT policy will be decided in court.

The process for enacting the policy is a different thing. The point I was making is that it is obvious that the policy will go ahead.