I have quite strong views on prostitution

[Tonight1]

Not at all about the women, just that I would not want to date a habitual user! Or punter as they're called. And yes this came up recently.

This is discussion about how you would feel about it?

AIBU - wouldn't mind
YANBU - would mind

So you get that demanding sex from a woman in exchange for something beneficial to her is wrong….but not when it comes to men only giving women a promotion if she sleeps with him?

@C1N1C are you in a sexless relationship by any chance? Couldn’t possibly understand why 🙄

I could never be with a man that has used one, not even a one time thing.
It would be a deal breaker for me, no matter how much I loved the man in question.

Still not understanding what point you think you're making about yacht girls.

For the record, I don't hate men. Just the ones who think they have a right to women's bodies, or that their lack of sex is an injustice women have to take responsibility for, or who use ridiculous examples perpetuating a false 'happy hooker' myth to prop up an industry based on torture, abuse and rape.

If you think hating people with those views equates to 'man-hating' then I'd suggest you have a lower opinion of your sex than I do. A lot of men don't think that way at all. And my life is full of good, decent men who I love.

You're misconstruing my point on this one. You're mixing up coercion with strategy. The 18 year old is being coerced into sex, or is being made to believe that sex will save the roof over her head. The point I was making about the secretary or yacht girl is more based on 'ambition'. A willing offer of sex for a step up (in a job or society). The woman has not been coerced but has chosen to do it in the belief she will attain benefits. I do admit there is a fine line, as you could argue that the yacht girl might believe the only way she could get those Gucci handbags is by doing it, but you would like to hope that hard work would likewise get her there too.

What am I missing? As I said, I'm open to be educated, but I see the above points as very different. One is a submission in fear, the other is a tool at her disposal.

The prostitute who robbed him. It was with her boyfriend. My friend was threatened with violence (and did go to the police). He never actually had sex with her. He would just pay for her company. In his head, he was helping her financially. She used him as a cash cow to fund her drug habit. He is unable to work and on benefits.

Bu yes, you condone crime against someone who is disabled and vulnerable. His autism meant he did not know he was being taken advantage of. His autism also means that he struggles with social situations, so he felt lonely and turned to paying for company.

Thankfully, he now has a good support network around him.

Well why don't you have a think about why there aren't 'yacht boys' and what that tells you about the power dynamics in society, for a start.

Yes the 18yo is being coerced - so is the employee who will only get ahead if she has sex with her boss.

But interesting you draw the line at ‘ambition’. so women who want to gain something - money, a job - don’t deserve the same respect as the 18yo? AKA the attentions of an unwanted predator

Oh so now he didn’t even have sex with her - sure.

I don’t care if someone is disabled - paying a woman for sex is rape and I have NO sympathy if engaging in rapey behaviour has repercussions.

'You condone crime against someone disabled and vulnerable' - anyone defending prostitution is condoning crime against vulnerable women. Prostitutes are raped, beaten, assaulted and robbed all the time and face being murdered by their clients. Your friend should never have been using prostitutes, regardless of his inability to find a willing sexual partner. This thread is about how revolting men who use prostitutes are; the fact that you have an example of a prostitute who did something terrible back does not negate the fact that men who exploit women are in the wrong.

No, he didn't. I know him quite well and he can't lie at all. He shows me the messages she has been sending him, and I have been blocking them.

I have been in the town centre with my friend, and he pointed out the boyfriend. The boyfriend saw my friend and shouted out "retard" at him.

I don't really understand how hard it is to believe that some prostitutes do pray on vulnerable men... sex or not. They just see the money.

Maybe my town is a cesspit (I believe it is).

Still not understanding what point you think you're making about yacht girls.

@TangerineNeonLight yacht girls are a Trojan horse. If he can get us to agree that transactional sex is OK if everyone is cute, or rich, or privileged, then we are condoning transactional sex. In which case it's the same as prostitution. It's just a way to condone sex work.

The fact is that Leo DiCaprio knows the 21 yo model wouldn't shag him if he wasn't rich and famous, just as much as the grubby perv knows the street worker wouldn't shag him if she didn't need money for drugs. All these men are repulsive. None of the women are. It's just worse if the women are being beaten or given drugs or have passports withheld.

@TangerineNeonLight

Apologies for the comment. It's easy for people to make assumptions, or the common MN one of an amazing point being made but someone hanging on one word and using it as a weapon.

I have only ever had loving relationships too, and I've never known prostitutes, so I'll admit my opinions are borne from ignorance. I do believe, however, that 'some' women do choose the profession as they see it as an 'easy' way of making money. The high-end escorts for one. It's those minority cases that I'll admit I'm basing a lot of my assumptions on. Many above are saying sex in that position is still coercion, and I am still struggling to see it. Here, we have an often beautiful lady that is being paid (I'm basing this off Secret Diary of a Call Girl) £2000 a night to have sex with a client she herself has vetted. How is this anything other than a planned business transaction for a service like a massage?

I don't really understand how hard it is to believe that some prostitutes do pray on vulnerable men... sex or not. They just see the money.

Yes, the main issue with prostitution is vulnerable male punters. Of course it is.

You're right about one thing @C1N1C - you are speaking from a position of total ignorance and it shows.

I'll admit my opinions are borne from ignorance.

Mine aren't. Maybe listen and stop talking.

By that logic, a woman who makes herself homeless to leave a man who beats her has given up a "lifeline". Give your head a wobble.

Men prey on vulnerable sex workers. How is it a huge stretch of the imagination to think that maybe some sex workers prey on vulnerable men.

Men can get jobs in those industries just as easily as women. The only career that men struggle to enter is childcare.

By that logic, a woman who becomes homeless by leaving a man who beats her has given up a "lifeline". Give your head a wobble.

When a man gets his wallet out to pay for sex, he loses any defence that comes from him being vulnerable. If he was willing to pay to override a woman's "no", then he was willing to knowingly do something wrong.

And in my friend's case... he thought he was actually helping the woman.

@XenoBitch at one of my workplaces there is a folder that the sex workers used to use to write down 'bad dates' to warn each other. They'd put a car number plate, description of the men, place etc. All different, lots and lots of men.

TW please don't anyone read on if they would be triggered.

And then there'd be a description of the behaviour of the men they were warning each other about; rapes, beatings, stealthing, changing the type of sex, kidnapping, robbery.

Do I think the odd pimp encourages the prostituted women to steal? Yes. Do I think even fewer do it off their own bat? Yes. Do think that's remotely comparable to what the women go through? No I don't.

The problem with prostitution is the punters, not the prostituted women. HTH.

The difference between being scammed and being a punter is whether the person handing the money over was expecting sex in return for the money.

If she scammed him, meaning that he wasn't expecting sex, then that has nothing to do with prostitution.