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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rwanda plan

949 replies

AdamRyan · 16/11/2023 23:05

Was just reading Suella Bravermans thoughts on how to make the Rwanda plan work, which involve sending staff there to review claims and pulling out of all human rights and refugee conventions.

The plan has cost £140m to Rwanda so far, plus £££££ in legal fees and so far we've sent no-one and found out its illegal. I'm very baffled as to why the government are pursuing it, I keep hearing that "most people" support it. So I thought I'd ask:

IABU: It's a priority as it will deter immigration and the government should spend whatever money and time it takes to deliver this

IANBU: The government should focus time/money on other priorities instead.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
43
travellinglighter · 20/11/2023 19:04

bombastix · 18/11/2023 21:37

You know the boats are actually commissioned to spec by the gangs that organize this. Made in China and basically untraceable

Did you read that in the daily Mail? The ones I’ve seen are just rib boats, you can buy a large one on eBay for £6k for a small one.

bombastix · 20/11/2023 19:07

Was there any point to your post?

CaramacFiend · 20/11/2023 19:50

Alexandra2001 · 20/11/2023 09:41

No swept anything under the carpet, it was very widely reported.

Perhaps you can tell me what religious background numerous Met police officers are from?

Can you back up those statistics? or is it your opinion?

When Met officers commit 1200 sexual assaults in one night then let's talk.

Read 'Prey' by Ayaan Hirsi Ali for all the stats. She knows her stuff.

CaramacFiend · 20/11/2023 19:52

Why are so few people talking about the eruption of sexual violence and harassment in Europe’s cities? No one in a position of power wants to admit that the problem is linked to the arrival of several million migrants—most of them young men—from Muslim-majority countries.

In Prey, the best-selling author of Infidel, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, presents startling statistics, criminal cases and personal testimony. Among these facts: In 2014, sexual violence in Western Europe surged following a period of stability. In 2018 Germany, “offences against sexual self-determination” rose 36 percent from their 2014 rate; nearly two-fifths of the suspects were non-German. In Austria in 2017, asylum-seekers were suspects in 11 percent of all reported rapes and sexual harassment cases, despite making up less than 1 percent of the total population.

This violence isn’t a figment of alt-right propaganda, Hirsi Ali insists, even if neo-Nazis exaggerate it. It’s a real problem that Europe—and the world—cannot continue to ignore. She explains why so many young Muslim men who arrive in Europe engage in sexual harassment and violence, tracing the roots of sexual violence in the Muslim world from institutionalized polygamy to the lack of legal and religious protections for women.

A refugee herself, Hirsi Ali is not against immigration. As a child in Somalia, she suffered female genital mutilation; as a young girl in Saudi Arabia, she was made to feel acutely aware of her own vulnerability. Immigration, she argues, requires integration and assimilation. She wants Europeans to reform their broken system—and for Americans to learn from European mistakes. If this doesn’t happen, the calls to exclude new Muslim migrants from Western countries will only grow louder.

Deeply researched and featuring fresh and often shocking revelations, Prey uncovers a sexual assault and harassment crisis in Europe that is turning the clock on women’s rights much further back than the #MeToo movement is advancing it.

Piggywaspushed · 20/11/2023 19:56

Have you actually read this book?

You have literally copied and pasted the Amazon description. Word for word.

greengreengrass25 · 20/11/2023 20:27

AdamRyan · 20/11/2023 10:16

I hate this racist trope that immigrants are sex offenders. The problem isn't immigrants. It's a minority of men. Plenty of white British men do vile things to women, plenty are involved in organised sex crime.

But in any case, sounds to me like that poster is saying its OK for Rwandans to have that problem exported to them. Confused

Why does the UK have to have them here in the first place

Rwanda isn't great either

greengreengrass25 · 20/11/2023 20:28

It's ok for the UK to have them arriving here though

CaramacFiend · 20/11/2023 20:37

Piggywaspushed · 20/11/2023 19:56

Have you actually read this book?

You have literally copied and pasted the Amazon description. Word for word.

I'm reading it atm.

And what's wrong with posting the Amazon description to give an idea of the content? Am I expected to write my own overview of it instead?

travellinglighter · 20/11/2023 20:41

bombastix · 20/11/2023 19:07

Was there any point to your post?

To point out what you’re saying is absolute tosh.

bombastix · 20/11/2023 20:49

Thanks. Given you've just been rude, I think the form is I don't bother to discuss it with you to suggest otherwise

jgw1 · 20/11/2023 20:51

greengreengrass25 · 20/11/2023 20:27

Why does the UK have to have them here in the first place

Rwanda isn't great either

Am I reading your post correctly that people should not be allowed to migrate from one country to another?

I presume therefore you are not a fan of the current Prime Minister who used to be an economic migrant?

Redundantrobin · 20/11/2023 20:52

IMarchToADifferentDrummer · 17/11/2023 18:17

Whaaaaat? No NHS? No free money to send home? No decent housing paid for by our government? Why, indeed?
Well, they don't, and that's wherein the rub lies!
I don't want to be nasty and say they shouldn't come here, but if/when they do they should not expect to be given everything they demand!
We have our own people to look after, first and foremost, and if our army barracks were good enough to house our soldiers then they're bloody well good enough to house refugees!!
If barges are good enough to house workers abroad, like in Saudi Arabia, then they're bloody well good enough to house them!
And if they don't like it, well, there's always Rwanda!!!

did you seriously suggest Saudi Arabia as a model for acceptable treatment of workers?

fucking hell

travellinglighter · 20/11/2023 20:52

bombastix · 20/11/2023 20:49

Thanks. Given you've just been rude, I think the form is I don't bother to discuss it with you to suggest otherwise

Tosh is very mild but you could always provide some form of evidence.

bombastix · 20/11/2023 20:53

I think the game is now that I don't provide any and demand you do if I read my right wing handbook correctly

Piggywaspushed · 20/11/2023 20:59

CaramacFiend · 20/11/2023 20:37

I'm reading it atm.

And what's wrong with posting the Amazon description to give an idea of the content? Am I expected to write my own overview of it instead?

Yes.

jgw1 · 20/11/2023 21:03

CaramacFiend · 20/11/2023 20:37

I'm reading it atm.

And what's wrong with posting the Amazon description to give an idea of the content? Am I expected to write my own overview of it instead?

It might be a good idea if the words are not your own, to make that clear in the post.

Stomacharmeleon · 20/11/2023 21:05

@jgw1 his parents might have been but I am sure he was born in Southampton general hospital?

DuncinToffee · 20/11/2023 21:10

greengreengrass25 · 20/11/2023 20:27

Why does the UK have to have them here in the first place

Rwanda isn't great either

Because the UK is a signatory of the 1953 Refugee Convention

CaramacFiend · 20/11/2023 21:15

AdamRyan · 20/11/2023 10:16

I hate this racist trope that immigrants are sex offenders. The problem isn't immigrants. It's a minority of men. Plenty of white British men do vile things to women, plenty are involved in organised sex crime.

But in any case, sounds to me like that poster is saying its OK for Rwandans to have that problem exported to them. Confused

What are your thoughts on the below excerpts from the linked study then? You see no issue with these types of cultural views? (which, contrary to what you seem to be suggesting, aren't shared by the average UK male, and certainly not by 90%).

And do you not see the similarity between branding people 'transphobes' for discussing where women's rights fit with the trans agenda and branding people 'racists' for discussing where women's rights fit with the immigration agenda?

In both of the above cases women's rights have to defer to the 'poor marginalised males', but in the latter situation, nobody really seems to care as it's not as much of a white feminist issue. In fact, one thing I've noticed is that nothing seems to irk white feminists more than the appearance of women that rate higher on the oppression scale than western women. I've witnessed it on many a thread here.

A coalition of international and UN organizations, private foundations and governments have come together to produce startling new research on the state of gender norms in the Middle East. The study, entitled Understanding Masculinities: Results from the International Men and Gender Equality Survey (IMAGES) for the Middle East and North Africa (MENA), helps to clarify how cultural norms for both men and women contribute to hostility and violence against women, specifically in the nations of Egypt, Lebanon, Morocco, and Palestine.

“When asked why they carried out such violence, the vast majority of men – up to 90 per cent in some countries – said they did it for fun, with two-thirds to three-quarters blaming women for dressing provocatively.”

^When it comes to domestic violence, more than half of male respondents believed that women deserve to be beaten on occasion, and 90 per cent asserted that women should accept such treatment in order to preserve the family.^

^Nearly half of Egyptian men have used physical violence against their wives. More than 8 in 10 ever-married men reported having been emotionally violent toward their wives at some point in their lives. Just over half of ever-married men surveyed had carried out one of these acts of violence in the previous 12 months (Table 3.4.6a).

Physical violence is also common: almost half of male respondents had ever slapped, shoved, struck, or otherwise physically abused their wives, with a fifth of ever-married men reporting physical violence against their wives in the previous year.21 More than half of men and women reported that such acts of violence were committed in front of children.^

^Furthermore, a fifth of men reported ever having used forms of economic violence against their wives.^

^One in six women reported having been forced to have sex with her husband, while almost no men reported having committed such abuse. In the Egyptian penal code, marital rape is not classified as an offense.^

Nearly two-thirds of both men and women in Palestine said provocatively dressed women deserve to be heckled, while 52 percent of men and 43 percent of women say women out in public at night are “asking to be harassed.”

In Egypt, 74 percent of men and 84 percent of women would blame a woman for being harassed if she dressed provocatively; in Morocco, those figures are 72 and 78 percent, respectively. More than half of Moroccan women said women who go out at night are asking for harassment.

In Morocco, for instance, 71 percent of men said women enjoyed sexual harassment, but only 42 percent of women agreed. Only 20 percent of Egyptian women said women enjoyed harassment, but 43 percent of men said they did.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2017/06/men-say-they-sexually-harass-women-because-its-fun-in-new-survey-from-promundo.html

https://philanthropywomen.org/feminist-foundations/new-study-funded-global-coalition-sheds-light-violence-women-middle-east/

New Study Sheds Light on Violence Against Women in the Middle East

A coalition of funders and organizations have come together to shed light on the problem of violence against women in the Middle East.

https://philanthropywomen.org/feminist-foundations/new-study-funded-global-coalition-sheds-light-violence-women-middle-east

CaramacFiend · 20/11/2023 21:17

jgw1 · 20/11/2023 21:03

It might be a good idea if the words are not your own, to make that clear in the post.

Well, obviously I'm not Ayaan Hirsi Ali who is mentioned as the author.

CaramacFiend · 20/11/2023 21:23

This is for me a critical failing of modern (white) feminism. It often lumps all men together and fails to recognise critical cultural differences, simply blaming it on 'the menz'. This serves to actively work against resolving the issue.

I mean, are things like forced marriage/child brides/FGM/honour killings/etc really things we see as commonly in Western society?

DuncinToffee · 20/11/2023 21:33

CaramacFiend · 20/11/2023 21:23

This is for me a critical failing of modern (white) feminism. It often lumps all men together and fails to recognise critical cultural differences, simply blaming it on 'the menz'. This serves to actively work against resolving the issue.

I mean, are things like forced marriage/child brides/FGM/honour killings/etc really things we see as commonly in Western society?

And here you are lumping all refugees/asylum seekers together as muslim men.

jgw1 · 20/11/2023 21:39

Stomacharmeleon · 20/11/2023 21:05

@jgw1 his parents might have been but I am sure he was born in Southampton general hospital?

If you are born in Southampton is it impossible for you to be a migrant, or does it just apply to that particular hosptial?

CaramacFiend · 20/11/2023 21:41

DuncinToffee · 20/11/2023 21:33

And here you are lumping all refugees/asylum seekers together as muslim men.

I think that's just the assumption you've jumped to. I'm talking about the over representation of asylum seekers/immigrants in sexual assault statistics and how this seems to echo the behaviour we see in the patriarchal cultures these men originate from.

Obviously the asylum seekers from other cultures aren't what is being discussed here. This is about young men from middle eastern countries, not women and children from Ukraine.

Stomacharmeleon · 20/11/2023 21:43

@jgw1 I meant more he was born in the uk thus can't be considered to be an economic migrant.
Or am I missing something?