To think society hates children?

[Orangeandgold]

During a crisis people tend to defend children and babies, but on a day to day basis when everything is “normal” I usually find and feel so much hatred towards children.

My DD picked this up quite young too. It is small subtle everyday conversations and actions.

I would have to remind an adult not to barge past a 5 year old when there is enough space on the pavement; or people that feel that they can comment or roll their eyes at you and be malicious because you have a buggy; or general comments in conversations about “all kids are brats/ those children/why would anyone have them.”; animals are so much more loving than children …

… and the comments go on!

If you don’t want children you don’t have to have them, but we were all kids once. AIBU to feel that society in general hates children and to get upset about it every now and then? Or am I just in a pessimistic bubble? Maybe it’s also the city, people have less tolerance? I just feel nobody really looks out for each other the way we would growing up - I would have neighbours on the look out as a child but now it’s different.

I have seen plenty of very young children in high end in places and while many have been perfectly well behaved there have been several occasions when they have clearly struggled with the formality of the place and have started to be disruptive. It is not their fault at all, I just think it is odd to bring such young children to such an environment that they don’t really appreciate, is expensive and the fact that they are probably bored shitless and run the risk of kicking off.

And before people mention it I also get annoyed with the table full of loud drunks as well but least the staff have some control insofar asking them to keep quiet.

Well, I’ll take your word for it. I certainly agree that taking under 5s to a Michelin star restaurant in the evening would be a bizarre thing to do. It’s not something I’ve ever done or seen anyone else do. Nor do I know anyone who’s ever done it or would do it.

I expect you routinely cause a nuisance to others, even if you don’t think that you do - inadvertently getting in the way, being slow packing up your shopping, having your tv on too loud so the neighbours can hear, holding up traffic while you parallel park, taking too long to pull out at a roundabout, wasting a GP’s time on something that turns out to be nothing, knocking over a drink at a restaurant, whatever it is. Because, like it or not, everybody is a minor nuisance from time to time

I can honestly say I don't do any of those things, other than maybe the getting in the way, but I tend to be aware of my surroundings, and move quickly. If someone is behind me, I don't parallel park, I find somewhere else. And who gets to see a GP these days to waste their time?

My ds has knocked over drinks when he was young, though

I don’t have children so I can’t speak to what it’s like being out and about with them.

What I would say is that as someone who is single, youngish, disabled and childless, society seems to me to be very much obsessed with “hardworking families” and anyone else simply doesn’t exist.

I also feel that there are very few adult spaces that aren’t either prohibitively expensive or orientated around alcohol or sexual activity. I don’t think it’s wrong for adults to want adult space, and the fact that you basically can’t get it nowadays will inevitably increase intolerance.

I certainly don’t feel like society hates kids though.

I think society is far more child-centred now than it was 50 years ago.

I think some people are unfairly pissed off by babies and children just existing in public space - E.g. a baby crying on a flight gets people riled when actually I’ve always found adults more annoying than babies on planes. That said, poorly behaved children are annoying (as are poorly behaved adults.) Society is not set up for parenthood though - maternity pay is crap, paternity leave is nothing and childcare costs are punishing.

What has happened to the old habit of both parties apologising when paths cross? Much nicer than the blame game.

Don’t think anyone really notices or cares about children tbh so long as they aren’t screeching about and making feral nuisances of themselves.

Don’t think anyone really notices or cares about children tbh so long as they aren’t screeching about and making feral nuisances of themselves

Yes, but that not really noticing or caring about children is a huge problem in itself, as it’s very much reflected in government policy decisions at the moment - see the government apathy around children and young people during the pandemic, the inaction around childcare issues and the low priority currently being given to all aspects of education and training, especially Early Years provision. It’s just not seen as important.

70% of MPs have children so whilst children's needs are largely disregarded by the government, that doesn't mean that the OP making a crack about childfree people in her initial post has found the source of the issue

I know what you're saying. I think a lot of people see children as a massive inconvenience. Even a lot of parents can't wait to get rid of them back to school after the school holidays (even parents who don't work)
I actually like spending time with my children, they are my favourite people!
It's nice to spend time with other parents who aren't constantly complaining about their kids and who actually get a lot of joy from them. I don't get people who have kids, when they don't actually enjoy the company of children.

So many comments!! I’ve not got through all of them.

I think anyone that has commented to say they only like children that are “quiet” and “well behaved” all the time are unreasonable if they mean “mute”. I meet worse adults than children that can’t keep quiet or be appropriate and are embarrassingly behaved.

I also want to remind people that children are humans with a brain and feelings and often they will speak and ask questions. They grow up to become adults and I’d rather teach them how to speak and contribute to society as opposed to being chucked away somewhere.

Personally my DD always receives compliments because she is a pleasure - I’ve raised her to have a voice but also to be respectful and understand how to behave in public and I’ve had to take her to many places over the years, sometimes due to lack of childcare, so she is well behaved and often has very engaging convos with adults! Once they know her they love her! But at first people are often disgusted at the idea of a child being within their space (not all - I have had very pleasant experiences and can assume that these people like children or at least see them as people and are willing to give them the time of day).

We often get weird looks from strangers when I take her to places where she might be one of a few young people - she is a tween now (certain restaurants, sometimes events, once we went to a church and a man asked “what is she doing here” out loud directed towards us - and I’ll always check these places welcome children) but she has ALWAYS behaved and I would take her out when she needs a break - but I still get looks from people because they cannot comprehend how a young person can be seen walking alongside an adult outside of school and home.

It’s the prejudgement.

In Britain yes most people treat children with contempt. I never noticed it until I became a mother.

In most of the Med - Greece Italy Spain etc - and the Middle East - children are treated like the joyous innocents they are.

I don’t know why Britain does what it does but I wonder if it’s why education is never an election issue when it should be.

I still get looks from people because they cannot comprehend how a young person can be seen walking alongside an adult outside of school and home.

What an odd assumption when children walking around with their parents is a perfectly normal sight

It’s the prejudgement

Sounds more like you have the prejudgement of complete strangers about what they are thinking if they happen to glance over at you

I’d say the opposite, people are so friendly to my children. I never knew how friendly strangers could be until I had kids!

Structurally, yes. It's reflected in policy- look at covid policy for example- primary school aged children were the only group in society totally banned from seeing their peers. Pubs before schools etc. Slashing of funding to children's services, no childcare, keeping families in poverty. Prices of very basic leisure activities like swimming through the roof. SEN provision actively discouraged through punative targets. Politicians treating children like a lifestyle choice instead of tomorrow's workforce, economy and carers.

Individually, society is more 'child focused' in lots of ways- e.g. family weekends built round kids, things like soft play. But child rights aren't any more respected than they were and in fact are being eroded.

We've lived overseas in a mediterranean culture where there is no separate concept of 'children's spaces' - quite normal to see kids at 9pm in a fancy restaurant or playing out at 10. British people are much more focused on separation of adults and children and children not disturbing adults. It's a real shame- I loved the big families tumbling around together, being relaxed about bedtimes etc.

The French thing really annoys me! Trust me, loads of French kids behave really badly. Don't believe the hype.

Yes exactly @Orangeandgold - children are, actually, people. Not some weird subspecies.

Although the UK got the RSPCA about 60 years before the NSPCC and in fact the RSPCA basically set up the NSPCC as even they felt bad people cared more about animals than children...

Children are enslaved, raped and abused everyday in this world we live in. Society is the smoke screen we all hide behind in order to live our lives decently while knowing this happens everyday.

Never experienced it as a parent of young children at all. Mine are now adults. I certainly don't 'hate' children, absolutely love them, and enjoy engaging with them.

I've seen more children with their parents pushing past people at hotel breakfast buffets etc than the opposite.

I will admit that children being allowed to scream, shout, run around (beyond what is normal child behaviour) in bars/restaurants/cafes etc whilst being totally ignored by their parents annoys me, but my annoyance is with the parents not the children.

I don’t have children but I have a lot of time and patience for them (unless they are completely feral). Interestingly i have found my friend and sister, both mothers, who are completely intolerant of kids. It seems it’s always ‘other people’s children’ who are a pain in the arse.

or people that feel that they can comment or roll their eyes at you and be malicious because you have a buggy;

Nothing to do with a dislike of children, more the fact SOME of those pushing buggies while walking two a breast refuse for all of 20 seconds to walk one behind the other to let others walking in the opposite direction walk passed.

I would have neighbours on the look out as a child but now it’s different.

Grew up with neighbours that did the same but those same neighbours would be banging on your door wanting to speak to your parent/s if you'd have been disrespectful in any way.

@Orangeandgold

but I still get looks from people because they cannot comprehend how a young person can be seen walking alongside an adult outside of school and home.

This seems more like you thinking this rather than them. Why wouldn't a young person walk with an adult? I can't really grasp your reasoning here.

I completely agree OP.

The love people have for dogs is what they should have for children.

I find it disturbing that people think children shouldn’t be in certain public spaces. I find it REALLY disturbing that if a child isn’t super high functioning and NT that they shouldn’t be in public at all. I see too many of these opinions round here.

Re the buggy walking A surely the rule is the person moves who finds it easier to move to the side? If I’m on a path and a buggy is coming at me head on I don’t expect them to shove their child into the road when it’s easier for me to do a quick side step that takes 0.3 seconds

@FarEast like someone else said I am a mum that pays taxes too. And is raising a person that will contribute towards society. There are other things our taxes support by the way.

@HoldOnMiGenna You raise a good point about parenting children to become adults - which is something I’m mindful of. I have come across some very intelligent children. And adults that could have learned responsibility and commitment earlier in life.

but I still get looks from people because they cannot comprehend how a young person can be seen walking alongside an adult outside of school and home.

I don't understand this at all??