Air bnb owner ott or do we deserve to be chucked out?

[Pilloh]

We were forced out of our house due to a water leak in the house. The insurance company said we had to move out due to the severity of the work.

A bit of a nightmare for us as we have a large dog. He’s been called a wonderfully mannered dog by a qualified behaviourist outside the house who really doesn’t care about people/other dogs. But he is a breed used for guarding and therefore very barky at home (we have a command that gets him to be quiet but it doesn’t stop the impulse to bark initially). Not to make excuses, we were working on this with the behaviourist pre-pandemic but our progress stalled so we just manage the situation. Ie we have gates all around our house/garden, don’t allow strangers and the dog to meet inside the house (he’s totally fine with people when they are not on “his” property). Our house is basically Fort Knox and only DH and I are here so it’s all pretty easy to manage.

We told the air bnb owner that please tell the cleaner not to enter house or garden without telling us as dog will run up and bark at strangers. He agreed. We explained the situation and he said he understood.

Yesterday pm, cleaner comes into the garden when I was playing footy - she was fetching something from shed. Dog ran towards her and barked. I gave the recall command which worked initially but then my dog ran back to cleaner and barked. It’s no doubt intimidating. After 20 ish secs dog was in the house and I apologised. Recall is not full proof hence why we never rely on it. We would never have found an Airbnb where we were not assured we would be informed of any person entering the property.

Owner has messaged now saying the cleaner won’t return whilst we are here and that means we have to leave as the owner is not ok with the house not being maintenanced.

Cleaner has visited 4 times without incident as the right procedures were followed.

Who is being unreasonable?

The cleaner knew the property was occupied. Whether she told the owner she was going there or not, she should have gone to the front door and rung the bell rather than walk straight into the garden.

Again, however you try to spin it, the cleaner is in the wrong.

Shes been told WHY she needs to give notice yet she chose to walk in to an occupied property, without being given the go ahead to do so.

I’m with you OP. The cleaner knew the situation, just stick to it. You’re paying to be there. The owner was fine with your situation. The cleaner managed other visits ok. Good luck

I agree and if you look back at my posts you'll see that I don't think that the cleaner should have entered without prior notice/agreement, dog or no dog. I don't think the OP is at fault.

What I was taking issue with was the cleaner being called an 'entitled cunt' and being the default person to blame in this situation when it's just as likely that the Air BnB owner was the one who messed up, but the cleaner automatically gets the blame and called names when she may well have stuck to the 'protocol' but the Airbnb owner didn't.

Either way it's not the OPs fault it happened, it is the Airbnb that are responsible either on behalf of the cleaner if she ignored the protocol or because the owner didn't contact OP to ask if the cleaner could collect something from the shed after being asked. The issue is just the assumption that the cleaner didn't do what she was asked and the derogatory tone applied, when it could equally have been the Airbnb owner that messed up. It's not fair that the OP has to move but unfortunately the owner can ask that as it's their property.

And the cleaner didn't go into the house, she went to the shed, she may well have been under the impression that the OP was expecting her. The cleaner has every right to then refuse to go in again because the system has failed, and she's the one facing the dog, especially if she stuck to the protocol and this problem still happened.

And I live in a HA property, I know how they work thanks.

It's not acceptable to default blame the cleaner and call her names like that when it's not cut and dried that she actually did something wrong.

"Hey boss I need to go to X property shed to collect the mop bucket, about an hour"

"Sure I'll let them know"

Usual protocol is the dog is out the way when cleaner expected. Cleaner believes she is expected therefore dog is out of the way. Airbnb host doesn't contact OP. OP not expecting cleaner. Cleaner goes into garden as thinks she's expected as with cleaning days.

Again, I don't think OP is unreasonable in this situation, clearly miscommunication between the cleaner and Airbnb owner, my issue is that it's automatically the cleaners fault and it's fine to slag them off and call them names based on the assumptions made.

Dog or no dog you don't just waltz into someone's property. Even if you're expected. You knock on the door. Basic manners!

She still should have gone to the front door and knocked or rang the bell.

If the dog had actually bitten/attacked the cleaner, whether the cleaner is ‘in the wrong’ would likely factor very little (if at all) in whether the dog has to be euthanised as a result. The dog is still the responsibility of OP, and she clearly has no control over it.

@Abra1t - thanks - I just wasn't following where the water leak came into the story. That makes more sense now.

Did you read the post properly? She was saying that an autistic person would be scared of the dog! Not that they would hurt anyone 🤦🏼‍♀️

I used to clean people’s houses. I was and am wary of dogs but the only two houses with dogs had some small mongrel type dogs and a black Labrador. I always let myself in with a key. The dogs did bark but I didn’t think they would do anything else and they never did. Just barked for a minute or two then went to lie down somewhere. This is why the breed is important for us to make a decision on whether you are being unreasonable or not. I would never have agreed to cleaning a house with a Rottweiler, Alsatian, Doberman or any of the terrier type large dogs… or a Jack Russell even because I don’t trust them. I don’t blame the cleaner as she may well have assumed the owner had informed you and that you would be out.

How long have you booked and paid for?

Do you have your communication in writing about the dog? You communicated the situation with the dog perfectly, before you made the booking.

Does the cleaner come at the same time each day/week? If so, you can tell the ABB owner the dog will be tethered at the time of future visits, it won't happen again. However, the cleaner failed to follow instructions. If they were apprehensive about the dog they should have followed them. The dog did not bite, the dog gave a verbal warning. As you were aware of the cleaner being around, it would have been prudent to immediately leash the dog and put it somewhere so the cleaner felt safe.

I did but you clearly didn't. She was most definitely NOT saying an autistic person would be scared of the dog. She was saying that people with autism can react/become anxious when someone comes unexpectedly into their space like the dog reacted to the cleaner appearing in the garden - she was comparing the dog's reaction to that of a human with autism. I took objection to that comparison. Dogs are animals that take their lead from their human owners on how to behave and can therefore be trained not to be aggressive towards strangers that enter their garden. This has absolutely nothing to do with people who have a disability.

As you were aware of the cleaner being around, it would have been prudent to immediately leash the dog and put it somewhere so the cleaner felt safe.

OP wasn’t aware.. not sure how many times people can say this... the cleaner turned up UNANNOUNCED and let themselves into the back garden (where OP and dog just happened to be) to get something out of the shed.. it wasn’t a cleaning visit.. it wasn’t scheduled and it wasn’t pre-warned (as the contract stated)

the cleaner could have called/text, she could have knocked on the door first, she could have called over the garden gate, she put herself in a position to come face to face with the dog. There was no way OP could have pre-empted her just turning up in the garden like that.

telling the OP to leash her dog is a little condescending seeing as she’s been taking the dog out all together when she knows the cleaner is coming, and only brings it back when the cleaner has gone.

Exactly this! Brilliant post 👏👏

Nuts? Really?

So, if the dog's 'bark' turned into a horrifying attack - which could quite easily happen - it would be the 'stupid cleaner's' fault for going in unannounced?

This is akin to saying a woman deserves to be attacked on a night out because she walked down a dark alley. Nooooo... she was attacked because there was an attacker on the loose!

Honestly, one of us is nuts and it certainly ain't me...

This isn't a meaningful comparison. Dogs don't operate within human moral boundaries and can't/shouldn't be expected to behave in certain ways like we are, having our human framework of the rule of law etc.

The cleaner had already been in more than once, without incident, having given notice. Suddenly moving the goalposts by turning up unannounced was foolish.

What rubbish! Attackers 'don't operate within human moral boundaries' either. That's what makes them attackers!

Meanwhile, dogs ARE trained to operate within certain boundaries. And that's the point: OP's dog is NOT trained!

But people on here are literally saying that if the cleaner had been seriously injured, it would have been her fault for entering the space of a potential threat unannounced.

I give up!

and then the reality of her cleaner, possibly someone that she has employed for many years and is close to, a trusted employer, rings her distraught and scared.

She is obviously going to support her cleaner and respond accordingly. She recognises it is not “fair” though by returning pro rats what you’ve paid

But that's not how it works as per the AurBnB contract - unless they have explicit permission from the guest they are not allowed to enter the property unless it's an emergency.

"Hey boss I need to go to X property shed to collect the mop bucket, about an hour"

"Ok, let me message the guest and check they're OK with that and I'll let you know, if/when you can enter." ... "Ceaner, I have spoken to the guest and you are OK to enter/Can only enter after 3pm/it's not convenient today so do not enter the property"

It's not a case of "Host can enter any time as long as they tell you in advance" it's a case of "If the host needs to enter during a guests reservation they must ask and receive permission." If they don't receive permission then they cannot enter the property at all.

While we can (and probably will) argue till the cows come home about the ins and outs of the cleaner entering without the guest's permission, the fact remains that, according to the OP, she has a poorly-trained dog on the premises which may bite.

The owner has decided that after all, he does not wish to have that dog in the property and has asked the OP to leave.

It's worth bearing in mind that, in certain circumstances, a trespasser or even burglar, may have a case against the owner of a dog who attacks them. It's not a given as it used to be, but it could lead to a court case. Even on private property an owner has a responsibility to other people who may be on the premises.

I'm with the owner here, sorry The words you use such as safety issues, nightmare and impenetrable, are scary to say the least.Why do you need to live with such rules and regulations.

YANBU
Owners ownership. You told him and he should have told the cleaner and there would be no issue.

All dogs bark. Bit unfair to call it an ‘untrained’ dog. It has had training and OP is working on it.

Comments are quite harsh OP. You did your due diligence

No, people are not ‘literally’ saying that. Most people are commenting on the event that actually happened (the cleaner getting barked at), not a hypothetical situation in which the cleaner was seriously maimed (by a dog that doesn’t have any bite history).

If events had been different, the responses would be different.

That said, yes, in your scenario the cleaner would be partially at fault and, though I have little doubt she would rightfully be successful in a personal injury claim (and the dog destroyed), there would likely be a finding of some contributory negligence on her part.

The cleaner was aware too, not just the owner - and had duly texted in advance on multiple prior occasions.

But, that's the point, life is full of 'what ifs' and 'hypotheticals'. It's the entire reason why the landlord has had to let OP go: because of what could happen in future.

As for your hypothetical scenario about the cleaner making a personal injury claim (after being attacked) and the dog being put down - all that could totally be avoided if the OP just trained her dog. THAT is the issue here!