To think this “crackdown” on benefit fraud is absolutely pathetic

[MissLou0]

We lose hundreds of billions from tax avoidance compared to 1 billion on benefit fraud and nothing is done about it, because those are the Tory donors. Michelle Mone just stole £28 million from taxpayers for her PPE scam, she’s not in trouble, and she of course also hides her hundreds of millions offshore.

We lose a small amount from benefit fraud, and as a result everyone who claims any sort of benefit including disability benefits banks are going to be monitored.

The graph below doesn’t even scratch the surface of how much is lost to tax avoidance. For example Rupert Murdoch is worth £17 billion and he hasn’t paid tax in years, personal tax or on his businesses. And he’s ONE person. These people are not targeted yet the most desperate and vulnerable are.

This is completely ignored by the media as the majority of newspaper owners are hiding their money offshore.

I’m in a situation where I don’t need to claim any benefits but I have family who are disabled who have had to fight for even the tiniest amount to live on, and they are now having to deal with this invasion of privacy which will make not even 0.000001% of what cracking down on tax avoidance would.

I think they will spend more trying to fight benefit fraud than they will recover from the few fraudulent claims they find.

Maybe so, but you'll never eliminate the basis of why this happens, which that a lot of Conservatives don't like the welfare state. They hate it, so spend much time and energy trying to make it as difficult as possible to claim, and in cases of fraud, to them, it's worth it.

The system for receiving any public money was that the local well to do judged your circumstances for themselves and then maybe you got some money under the poor laws.

Munificent charity is more enjoyable for the well to do, irrespective of the human cost... see big society and the rise of the food bank, which is completely shameful in a country as well off as the UK.

Well if we just concern ourselves with the super rich based in or investing in the U.K., for starters you can change the law so that property purchased in the UK needs to have a transparent registered owner.

That didn't take long before pensioners got the blame lol

There is virtually no fraud, though, with pensions. Age dictates the eligibility.

Which is why the benefits being checked are "working age" benefits.🙄

1000%

Exactly this!

Even I can envisage the political and commercial advantages that can follow from using this as a way to trial AI monitoring of purchases and linking it with travel, interpersonal connections and online behaviour. Stick in a monitoring requirement for claimants to prove Internet job searching and you've developed enough integration with the data to be able to link it up with health insurance/refusals of cover and profitable areas, politics, personal ethics, and private thoughts.

Add in the ability to influence via algorithm as was done by Cambridge Analytica and the potential profit and control is boundless.

But they've got to start somewhere. Which as ever, is with benefit claimants.

Apologies to Amazon for forgetting to mention the NMW & NLW are the same starting from 1st April 2023 for all workers aged 23+. Below that age a NMW still applies.

That means a family of 5 (kids age 12m, 5 & 11y) with both parents working at amazon would be able to claim some universal credit based on parent 1 working 22h parent 2 working 40h. Baby in childcare 12h week.

The national living wage is not as much as you think. Nor is Amazon's amazing wage

A few figures.

Delivery driver rates start at £9.52ph doesn't mention age, could be s/e which is worse than waged at that rate.

Amazon warehouse operative base rate (23+) £11.00

NMW £10.42 (23+)

NLW £10.42 (23+)

From the Government website "In October, we recommended the NLW should increase by 9.7 per cent (92 pence) in April 2023 to £10.42."

Maybe the DWP and HMRC could collect the half a billion quid of child support that is owing in this country to (mostly) mothers.

But that would move money from (mostly) men to women and children, and isn't much of a priority. Easier to go after these low-paid women on UC who are caught in the tangled wires of structural inequalities while bringing up millions of children.

I think the stress differential is a new sex-based inequality. We're an odd country that let men walk away and live an easy life, leaving women and children to lives of stress, low wages, benefits, benefit investigations, insecure housing and societal criticism. As pp have said, all very mid-Victorian.

I agree. Go after all of them, including the people claiming benefits just because they don’t want to work.

It’s not a small invasion of privacy, it’s a breach of human rights applied to everyone who claims to catch the minority of people who claim fraudulently or who have made an honest mistake. How long before they then start deciding what people can spend the paltry sum they get in benefits?

This was brought in by the Australian Liberal (AKA vile Tory cunts) government for "certain" communities, i.e. Indigenous Australians, to limit what benefit recipients could spend their money on, i.e. NOT drugs, porn or alcohol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cashless_Welfare_Card#:~:text=The%20Cashless%20Welfare%20Card%2C%20also,responsible%20behaviour%22%20by%20not%20allowing

Can't find the link but remember the hoo-ha when it was later suggested that this be extended to all benefit recipients, i.e state pensioners.

The cashless card was abolished by the Labor government in 2023.

The point of all this is it can be done, and this particular scrutiny of those on benefits is the thin end of the wedge.

Fotally agree; noone should be defrauding benefitd or evading tax for financial gain.

Its not that easy (anymore) to just come to jersey and set up companies and trusts. We are heavily regulated (contrary to popular belief). And taxes are paid here. But with ways to mitigate your exposure (as with the Uk).

high net worths coming here have to go through rigorous screening (more so since the Ukrainian war started). They have to have a certain level of income and a certain level of wealth. They have to prove that they’ll contribute x amount to the island on an annual basis. And they have to give up their Uk residence and domicile.

“It’s not our fault that everyone is working 55 hour weeks, barely able to afford food and struggling to heat their homes! How dare you! It’s the fault of those lazy shiftless benefits scroungers!”

Do you think we distracted them lads? Let’s celebrate in the gentleman’s club. Stripclub later?

This directly feeds into @CherryMyBrandy comment: the economy is set up against almost everyone other than the uber rich who are just getting richer and richer off the backs of everyone else

Maybe it's because I work in an industry that is literally designed to manipulate people into losing money to benefit the already extremely wealthy, but it absolutely baffles me how the general population don't see what's happening and how going along with being pitched against each other in almost every aspect of our lives keeps the "powerful" in their position.

everyone who claims any sort of benefit including disability benefits banks are going to be monitored.

In what way? How are they going to do this?

Interesting in the USA, child support is taken out of the absent father's pay via deduction through social security (tax code equiv) number. Don't pay - get a fine, don't pay- jail.
Money goes to the mother for the children.

And the poster has conveniently overlooked the fact that net recipients are not just benefit claimants - they are also anyone with children.

@YomAsalYomBasal yeah I wondered when some ignorant individual would mention pensioners, I take it you DO know that the State pension is paid from NI revenue not tax the NIF is in surplus to the tune of 60.5 Billion as of 31st March 2023. Income based benefits are paid through tax revenue, which is why as much as some Mumsnetters want to do away with my pension (which I pay tax on BTW) it wouldn't add a single farthing to the funds available for income based benefits or disability benefits

And actually its pensioners themselves who often lose out on tax payers help the uptake of pension credit is very low despite the government advertising it nearly everyday, also the its clear that a lot of pensioners are not claiming Attendance Allowance the benefit they can get for care needs.

Tbf the levels of benefit fraud shot up during the pandemic when the usual (and perfectly adequate when properly implemented) checks on ID etc were suspended and claims went entirely online

Indeed it did.

I moved to a new flat in April of this year and universal credit rejected my housing element twice as they thought my tenancy was "contrived". I had to jump through hoops to have my benefit awarded and had to get my local MP involved in the end. I was told it was because they had seen record numbers of fake tenancies created during the pandemic with people fraudulently claiming thousands of pounds.

I managed to prove my tenancy was legitimate only when my first council tax bills came through so it's fortunate I had a small amount of savings to pay the rent until then.

As far as I'm concerned they can check what they like. Innocent people are already suffering because of fraudulent claimants.

Not pensioner bashing at all, but state pension is legally defined asa benefit, and I think this is where the confusion arises.

This is why companies should have to claim benefits. They are the ones allowed to pay little enough that people need benefits to allow them to live. All make legal by the introduction of tax credits

While you are technically correct. HMRC has for some years conflated the two to intimidate those without the best professional advice and even some who have it.

Let’s not mention Liz truss losing the economy millions.
let’s not mention hs2 wasting billions
let’s not mention ppe scandals
let’s not mention billions lost to fraudulent business claims during Covid of which less than 5% has been recovered.

nope it’s DEFINITELY benefits claimants that are the problem.

Yes, this, while at the same time some kids can't get free school meals. The meals MP's get are decent quality and wine while we all know what school meals are like.