To think this “crackdown” on benefit fraud is absolutely pathetic

[MissLou0]

We lose hundreds of billions from tax avoidance compared to 1 billion on benefit fraud and nothing is done about it, because those are the Tory donors. Michelle Mone just stole £28 million from taxpayers for her PPE scam, she’s not in trouble, and she of course also hides her hundreds of millions offshore.

We lose a small amount from benefit fraud, and as a result everyone who claims any sort of benefit including disability benefits banks are going to be monitored.

The graph below doesn’t even scratch the surface of how much is lost to tax avoidance. For example Rupert Murdoch is worth £17 billion and he hasn’t paid tax in years, personal tax or on his businesses. And he’s ONE person. These people are not targeted yet the most desperate and vulnerable are.

This is completely ignored by the media as the majority of newspaper owners are hiding their money offshore.

I’m in a situation where I don’t need to claim any benefits but I have family who are disabled who have had to fight for even the tiniest amount to live on, and they are now having to deal with this invasion of privacy which will make not even 0.000001% of what cracking down on tax avoidance would.

I totally agree the government could tackle tax fraud. However it's always dressed up as legal tax avoidance. It's always been the case if you avoid / evade tax you are creative, if you over claim benefits your a criminal.

The MP's who fraudulently over claim thousands for their second homes far outweigh the costs of overpaid housing benefit. The breakfast receipts which are higher than a whole weeks jobseekers allowance. The tax schemes that celebrities use and then say they didn't know they were dodgy. How many people still support these MP's or celebrities who fraud the government out of millions more than any benefit claimant ever do?

Why is deliberately not paying enough tax seen as morally wrong while claiming too much benefits is seen as as legally wrong. It is possible to do both at the same time of course.

But the government and media like to whip up a storm, maintaining the ideology of the undeserving. Keeping the plebs in their place pacifies the masses, so that they look to blame the poorest in society while making excuses for the rich who rob the coffers.

@FFSMabel

amazon was paying living wage btw

Then maybe they should start by making it illegal…?

Elections are coming so it's time to demonise the poor and immigrants to win Tory votes!

Would be interesting to know why the HMRC and Tax Justice estimates are so wildly different. Also tax ‘avoided’ through legal loopholes need to be excluded from the figures.

I guess some people may object more to benefits claimants than tax avoiders because their perception is that the tax avoider is just trying to keep money they have actually earned in their pockets whilst benefits claimants are asking the taxpayers to subsidise them (or to pay for them entirely, in some cases). Not the way I see it as I know several people who genuinely cannot be expected to work and I feel a bit ‘there but for the grace of God’ with them but cracking down would surely mean more money for people like them rather than those choosing not to work as a lifestyle choice.

@littleblackcat27 I imagine that @rwalker is using one of the many LEGAL tax avoidance methods to minimise the level of IHT payable.

nothing wrong with that. It’s all above board and as long as it’s done correctly no issues.

Indeed. Couldn’t agree more.

We need to start seriously addressing the appalling inequality in the UK. We also need to start taxing wealth properly so that everyone has a better chance at living a comfortable life.

HRTFT but legally correct and above board doesn’t mean morally and ethically ok though right?

@Girlsjustwannahavefundamentalrights
Please apply for your PIP. There are people who can do the process for you they may take 25% of any backdated pay but this is money you are entitled to.

I'm not an expert but help my relative and we used a disability solicitor specialising in autism and they took on some of the stress.

I think we started at https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.disabilityrightsuk.org/&ved=2ahUKEwjEsaugrbaCAxW_Q0EAHRSgC5QQFnoECAYQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3FHm_ONTkX_skqbhFANs81

I think so. If all above board, I don’t think it’s immoral not to pay tax you don’t owe.

Why not? Plenty of people have ISA’s. That’s tax avoidance.

plenty of people gift homes to their children then survive the 7 years meaning no IHT payable. That’s tax avoidance.

plenty of people hold assets in trust. Or in companies. Not their personal names. To minimise iht. That’s tax avoidance.

tradies/cleaners/dog walkers who work cash in hand. Potential tax avoidance.

is it only morally wrong if it’s the rich who are doing it?

I’m not sure if that’s as effective a tactic as it used to be. The pandemic fallout plus an aging population plus the NHS waiting lists means that more of us are touched by illness and disability, whether it is themselves or friends and family.

I personally know people who used to work and have a normal life, fight to get a paltry level of benefits that don’t even cover the essentials. Many PIP claims are turned down even when quite strongly evidenced because they hope people will just give up and die. It’s really disgusting. I spoke to a man who was quite anti disability claimants until his daughter was diagnosed with MS.

I broadly agree.
I would like to see some better auditing of subsidised housing as that doesn’t seem to be well managed. Housing situation is desperate and this could identify subletting and empty properties.

I'd rather they ended subsidised food and drink for MPs. Tax payers are charged 17 million to subsidise MPs food. Please someone on here start a petition. Let's see how they like it, living like normal folk, paying for their own food.

This government is corrupt and has stolen billions from the taxpayer, that’s true.

Bur that doesn’t mean that the ballooning welfare bill is also acceptable. The number of net contributors is shrinking while the net recipients increase. This situation is unsustainable. And benefit fraud is more common than reported or found. You only have to look at MN. Though there is a strange phenomenon on MN where people get very defensive over benefit fraud. There must be a lot of people on here who are robbing the taxpayer themselves, if you look at the way they defend fraudsters and police onto OP if someone starts a thread about a relative of friend being a fraudster.

I work in offshore finance so deal with Uk tax advisors a lot. We work out what’s best for each client. They pay what they owe. But typically there are legal methods that Hmrc are aware of which are used.

one client lives in London has a Uk based investment portfolio. will only be subject to CGT if they invest in Uk assets. So they don’t. He still pays his income tax. But won’t pay CGT.

A small amount of privacy being invaded isn’t much in exchange for money to live on.

There has to be some kind of deterrent to committing benefit fraud. Starling from the taxpayer, other people in need, is a horrible crime.

Morally it seems much worse that avoiding tax because it’s people keeping their own earned money, not taking away other peoples. And usually people who are able to avoid a small amount of tax are still paying a lot of tax and making a contribution to the economy.

The ballooning welfare bill is mainly due to old age pensions.

Someone who clearly doesn’t understand how tax works.

Money you get isn't enough to live on.

It won't be a "small amount of privacy"

@NalafromtheLionKing many benefit claimants work a lot harder for minimum wage. The pandemic shone a light on these critical workers.

They need subsidies from benefits because by the government’s own measly standards their employers don’t pay enough to live. Many of those employers use tax avoidance schemes so the government is subsidising the employer twice over.

Landlords are getting rich because rents are so high. When working families can’t afford rent the landlord is also gaining from the benefit system.

How many people do you really think live on benefit as a lifestyle choice?

Living on benefits is bloody horrible and people get in a cycle where they are scared to take work and be less better off. I personally have no problem with a parent doing a bit cash in hand cleaning to their kids some Xmas presents and maybe be able to stick some extra money in the gas to keep warm over winter. There are bigger issues than going after struggling people trying to get by whichever way they can atm.

Nothing legally wrongX. Morally, well some people just don’t have them. Me, me, me and obsessed with wealth and money.

the thing that pisses me off is that they gets so upset about benefit fraud but literally don’t give a shit about tax evasion. My ex is self employed and not declaring all his income, it’s probably not a huge amount but enough to make significant difference to the amount he pays in maintenance and HMRC aren’t interested at all. If I was reporting him for benefit fraud I’m sure they would be all over it!