Religious Celebrations in school

[ClippitiClop]

DS is 4, in reception. He goes to a great school, we are in London so very diverse intake of kids. The school has no religious affiliation and when we asked at open days how religion is taught and celebrated they told us that all religious holidays are treated with equal prominence with the exception of Christmas as it’s also a cultural holiday in the UK - fair enough!
Yesterday was DS parents evening. We got to have a look at work they have done so far this year while waiting to speak to the teacher.
Not many religious holidays have happened since school started but in September they did “celebrate” Rosh Hashanah (Jewish).
They read books about how Jews celebrated the holiday, tried some exotic fruits (I’ll be honest I’m not sure of the relevance here), along with Apple and Honey (traditional I believe), and did some related crafts.
The teacher mentioned on Friday they are celebrating Diwali, themed lunch for all students and other in class activities in the afternoon. All great - right?

Well DH has decided he thinks it is insensitive, he feels like it is allowing the children to pick and chose which parts of a religion to engage with (the “fun” parts). He thinks celebrating Eid for example would be offensive as it comes at the end of fasting, he doesn’t see why anyone who hasn’t participated in fasting should be able to “just” join the fun celebration at the end. I pointed out it’s really no different to Easter for most and he claimed it’s different as there are secular aspects to Easter (quite frankly he’s very much partial to a lamb dinner and chocolate egg at Easter!!).
DH thinks it would be better if these religious holidays were taught but not necessarily celebrated in the school. He thinks this should include Easter, Eid, Rosh Hashanah, Diwali etc. (though he feels Chinese new year is fine as it’s more cultural than religious). He agrees with the school that Christmas is different.

AIBU to think DH is being silly and it’s totally fine (actually a positive) that the kids are getting to learn about and appreciate other religions, in a way that is engaging and in my opinion respectful (feel free to disagree). Or is he right, picking and choosing which parts of a religion to engage with is insensitive?

If you are religious (Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Christian or any other) would the way the school seems to celebrate these holidays offend you? Would you rather they only taught and not celebrate? (I appreciate you can’t speak for your religion as a whole but curious none the less)

But at 4/5 with the fun bits, at least they’re getting into an introduction for it.

What do you think atheists in India do? I’m of Indian origin, my ancestors were Hindu but I don’t believe. We’ll still have a small Diwali celebration with my family. I just don’t do the religious bits.

But they are not actually 'celebrating' are they? They are just teaching the children what happens at different festivals in the UK and hopefully why.

I've done similar with teenagers when I was teaching, "Equality and Diversity", brought in Indian sweets or red envelopes for Lunar New Year (I had a Vietnamese student who corrected me on that one).

If elsewhere this isn’t the case, I’m sorry, but could you give some examples, genuinely keen to learn!!

I'm in Wolverhampton. Vaisakhi consists of a Sikhs marching from one of the Gurdwaras to West Park, where you can buy Indian food, clothes, books and also ride dodgems at the fun fair that is set up.

There are Punjabi dances and singers and I'm far from being the only white person there.

It usually happens on the Sunday before Vaisakhi here and then most of the stall holders decamp to Southall for a repeat the next Sunday.

Put it in your diary for April next year.

There are lots of pagan festivals still celebrated by many people who are not pagan.

Lots of schools / colleges and some work places still serve fish on a Friday and I doubt most people even associate that with religion.

Actually fish and chips are interesting, it started as a Jewish food, has become a staple of British food and adopted by many RC families to eat on 'days of abstinence'.

My brother lives in a very undiverse area, I have sent his children money in red envelopes.

This

one Of the many reasons I left teaching in the uk. Teachers can't do anything right

They're 4........

Same here.

Complaining because 4 year olds aren’t taking religion seriously enough?! They’re 4!

Perhaps learning about Opus Dei should be included in the NC and the kids can self flagellate…

I love that schools do this. I'm an atheist of Indian origin and I strictly only do the fun parts of any celebration. I dont know about the other ones but I wouldn't say Diwali is particularly religious. Yes, it's based on mythology but to be honest I had no idea till my DD learnt about the mythology bit in school!! In the UK!!

Besides most religions are not just about faith. They are about community and culture and I'd say in their country of origin most of these festivals would be considered cultural as well as possibly religious.

I also think it's good for kids to learn that in fact you can pick and choose when it comes to religion. You don't have to slavishly follow every single doctrine but you should think about which ones make sense and help you and others and which ones are harmful. Any other way leads to fundamentalism.

I’m gonna say it one more time- this isn’t just about your DH and your kid! There are other children in the school and it’s right that the school (and their peers) honour their festivals too. If the school has a diverse intake they aren’t ‘taking it upon themselves to organise’- they’re reflecting their community. This is what the inclusion part of the D&I is all about.
you’ve said this isn’t coming from intolerance but unless parents from those religions have complained and he’s allying with them, it sort of looks that way….

This. You could hardly enforce the fasting for Ramadan but you can tell the children the celebration comes at the end of the fasting period. It will also be covered differently according yo the age of the children.

I went to a non dom school in the north east and we also celebrated a lot of religious festivals (Christmas, Diwali, Hanukkah, Eid, etc) and we would have a party for each one while learning about what the festivals were for and what was being celebrated. I loved it! It's a great way to get primary children engaged with celebrations they wouldn't usually be part of, and learn at the same time

They’re four. They don’t fully understand the signifiante of anything, from birthdays to Christmas to Bonfire night. They just like the celebrations.
as they get older, they’ll understand and learn more about all of these religious festivals from a deeper POV and hopefully be more understanding of other faiths and cultures.

I think you’re missing what I was saying. The debate was in the context of our family and why we celebrate Christmas but not say Diwali. We boiled it down to in the UK (where we live) Christmas cultural, Diwali is religious. Like I said if we lived or were from elsewhere this could be different.
It wasn’t about which holidays have become cultural elsewhere, as it was specifically about a debate DH and I, about our own beliefs, why we have them etc.

Does your DH have issues with the school celebrating Xmas? Because there are are lot of families of Indian descent in the UK who celebrate Diwali as a purely cultural festival and don’t place any religious significance on it. Why should these children not get to celebrate at school and culturally Christian children do? It does sound like he wants other religions to “get back in their box” as another poster put it.

So you think Christmas is a culturally a Christian festival Because England is a Christian country ? That looks like what he's saying. Non observant Jews might celebrate Hanukkah or Indians Diwuali because its culturally important to them but your husband doesn't think it Is important enough for the wider school to acknowledge and take part/ interest in because well that's for "them" not "us".

Your DH sounds like hard work. All this hand-wringing! Your child is going to be at school for many years to come. Save yourselves some emotional energy and instead appreciate that the school knows what they're doing and that your son is enjoying learning in a happy environment.

This is very blinkered. Do you understand that people from other religious backgrounds, who call themselves atheist, are also UK citizens?

Why are their festivals religious, but yours cultural, when they are no less British than you?

The whole point is it isn't about you. It's about everyone.

It is sounding anti-diversity, really.

I get where he is coming from but he shouldn't take it upon himself to be upset on other people's behalf. At 4 I would expect religious festivals to be introduced to kids in an age appropriate way and that may well be focusing on how we celebrate. So for example they may well learn how eid is typically celebrated before they are taught that there are two and how they differ. That's how my own children are learning about eid.

YANBU
I went to an Anglican school (daily religious assembly, Carol service etc) but it was highly diverse with a large minority of Jewish students. We celebrated other religious festivals as well as being taught and had a choice of morning services to go to in the mornings, I went to Catholic mass. When I went to work there was a Succot pavilion (sorry can’t remember the name) in the square next to the office for the employees to be welcomed into whether Jewish or not. I think it’s a lovely, inclusive tradition and I’m not sure if this is why, but I’m significantly less religion-ist than my family members after my experience of lots of differently religious people at school. It’s lovely to learn about the reasons behind other traditions but lots of religions are firmly based into community and as a result it’s an honour and a privilege to be welcomed to celebrate alongside others.

Does he think the kids who have a cultural
heritage that celebrates Diwali are less important than the kids who have a cultural heritage that celebrates Christmas?

The fact that he doesn't get that Diwali is an important cultural festival for a lot of people who have Hindu/Sikh/Jain heritage but no longer follow the religion suggests that he might have benefited from more of this kind of education as a kid. Deciding Christmas is ok because it's crossed from religion to (majority) culture but eg Diwali isn't is on the dodgy side.

religious Muslim here. I think it's great. very important to celebrate all the religions of the students/community in order to build tolerance and understanding.

@ClippitiClop

I think it's lovely that pupils are being given a chance to know and celebrate a little of other cultures/religions if it's done with a light touch. My school didn't but various employers I've worked for have done the same for those interested. 🌹

I did this stuff in primary and that was at possibly the least diverse school in the country! It’s just RE

All our Muslim family and friends love it when others celebrate Eid with us. Also, note that we have 2, one which does not proceed Ramadan. Eid for us is about much more than fasting. Growing up, my Christian and secular friends celebrated with us. Some joined us for breaking fast and we'd regularly share food with our non-Muslim neighbours during all our festivities. I think your husband is being over-sensitive and far too quick to be offended on behalf of others who aren't.