Religious Celebrations in school

[ClippitiClop]

DS is 4, in reception. He goes to a great school, we are in London so very diverse intake of kids. The school has no religious affiliation and when we asked at open days how religion is taught and celebrated they told us that all religious holidays are treated with equal prominence with the exception of Christmas as it’s also a cultural holiday in the UK - fair enough!
Yesterday was DS parents evening. We got to have a look at work they have done so far this year while waiting to speak to the teacher.
Not many religious holidays have happened since school started but in September they did “celebrate” Rosh Hashanah (Jewish).
They read books about how Jews celebrated the holiday, tried some exotic fruits (I’ll be honest I’m not sure of the relevance here), along with Apple and Honey (traditional I believe), and did some related crafts.
The teacher mentioned on Friday they are celebrating Diwali, themed lunch for all students and other in class activities in the afternoon. All great - right?

Well DH has decided he thinks it is insensitive, he feels like it is allowing the children to pick and chose which parts of a religion to engage with (the “fun” parts). He thinks celebrating Eid for example would be offensive as it comes at the end of fasting, he doesn’t see why anyone who hasn’t participated in fasting should be able to “just” join the fun celebration at the end. I pointed out it’s really no different to Easter for most and he claimed it’s different as there are secular aspects to Easter (quite frankly he’s very much partial to a lamb dinner and chocolate egg at Easter!!).
DH thinks it would be better if these religious holidays were taught but not necessarily celebrated in the school. He thinks this should include Easter, Eid, Rosh Hashanah, Diwali etc. (though he feels Chinese new year is fine as it’s more cultural than religious). He agrees with the school that Christmas is different.

AIBU to think DH is being silly and it’s totally fine (actually a positive) that the kids are getting to learn about and appreciate other religions, in a way that is engaging and in my opinion respectful (feel free to disagree). Or is he right, picking and choosing which parts of a religion to engage with is insensitive?

If you are religious (Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Christian or any other) would the way the school seems to celebrate these holidays offend you? Would you rather they only taught and not celebrate? (I appreciate you can’t speak for your religion as a whole but curious none the less)

DH and I have had this debate before. Eventually we concluded that in the UK atleast (and elsewhere in many cases), Christmas has crossed a line from religious to cultural, where other religious celebrations haven’t. So while there are many religious aspects (most of which we don’t engage in) there are also cultural aspects which are now only loosely related to the religious ones which we do engage in.

Your child is 4. He will learn about the not so fun and serious parts of religion when he is older. I expect if you asked one of the Year 6 children what they do.in their RE lessons it will be very different to the little babies in Reception.
Wait until about Year 3 or so when they start learning about WW2. It's all about Evacuees ("what an adventure") and food rations, building a model of an Anderson shelter out of cardboard etc. They don't get into the actual evils and politics about it until older.
It's age appropriate education.

Does your DH come from a background with an austere religion such as Free Presbyterian? Otherwise I can't think of a reason he would want to deprive 4 and 5 year olds of fun. Fun is a good way to learn, if it is enjoyable it will stick in the mind more. They can learn more age appropriate details as they get older.

My Humanist viewpoint would be it's ok to teach, celebrate, play at all the different religions if they are taught as "some people believe". Once it gets into the realms of "fact" it is very dodgy indeed.

This world desperately needs more understanding, not less.

I’m Hindu and we’re doing Diwali decorations and food at my work place. It’s just something fun and we love it being celebrated at schools etc. Your DH is overthinking this.

'Other religious celebrations haven't'? Surely that's his egocentric view of the world and where he lives

This is even less understandable to me now, if he is an atheist what does he care for the religious aspects?

I have never been told by someone of another religion that they find it insensitive for other people to understand and enjoy the festivals of importance to their communities.

Your DH is worrying on behalf of other people who are able to speak for themselves, this is not his job. If he wants to ask other people what they think, and they tell him it is insensitive, then he would have a point - but this appears to be a conclusion an atheist has come to on behalf of people of faith he has never met?

Is it possible he just doesn't like religious ceremonies in school very much full stop, as an atheist? That would be philosophically more consistent.

Your local area will probably have some form of multi-faith advisory group for RE in schools. Have a look at their work and rest assured that if there were an issue, local faith leaders would be speaking up.

As a Christian, I think he has a point tbh.

But also the points made here about cultural learning and experiential learning for younger children are valid too.

What did your husband give up/ take up for lent in order to enjoy his Easter eggs?

I think it’s fair to say that in the UK (where we are both from and live and where our family is from and live) Christmas is not just a Christian celebration but a cultural one. If we lived elsewhere this might not be the case and another holiday may take the place of bridging the cultural/religious celebrations. If we lived somewhere this was the case we’d likely celebrate that holiday.
As we are British and live in the UK, but atheist, we celebrate holidays as they are part of our culture, (so we celebrate Christmas, less so Easter and that’s about it).

OK, this thread has moved on very fast, I see that your DH is an atheist. Yes, Christmas has shifted a bit from religious to cultural (otherwise why would the shops be full of imported plastic tat?) but my understanding is that there is a certain element of that with other religions - the fun, not the tat. I think Christians have the monopoly on that!

Learning through play is what children do at that stage. Your DH is over thinking it. Has he spoken to parents from different faiths at the school to gauge their feelings?

At my DCs primary school they used to invite parents and grandparents in to share different faiths and beliefs. My pagan friend was in her DDs school last year talking about that. I know a teacher at the school, she said it was brilliant.

I did make this point …. He didn’t give a real answer before deciding that in the UK atleast there are secular aspects to Easter (he seems to always be able to twist a situation to suit his narrative though)

I think husband is looking to be offended on behalf of other cultures and making himself look a bit daft in the process.

But how do other religions achieve the same status as Christianity - not in terms of numbers but social value - if they are only ever enjoyed by followers of the faith?

It could sound a little bit like he just doesn't really like multiculturalism and wants mainstream things to be Christian while the 'niche' religions stay in their boxes?

there Is also secular other cultures though, I don't think it's reserved to atheist "Christians ". I mean I might be wrong

This is how small children learn, through fun and role play. Does he want them sat down and given a lecture instead? He sounds clueless.

Hmm.

He sounds uncomfortable with religious diversity.

yeah he does like a pp said they should stay in their box.

I genuinely don’t think this is the case at all. He is a very loving man and I do think his concerns are from a good place (a fear that we are diluting religious holidays insensitively) rather than one of intolerance.
DH couldn’t care less for Christmas or Easter, he celebrates for me and our DS. If one year I said let’s not do anything he would probably go “yeah fine grand”.
We have celebrated Eid in the past, with some muslim friends. He feels this was different as we were invited to join their celebrations, rather than taking it upon ourselves to plan them (which is what he feels the school is doing).

This. While also being a massive hypocrite.

He seems happy enough to celebrate the 'fun' bits of certain religious festivals.

Op your school sounds like it is doing a good job teaching the students about each others culture and religions. This is a wonderful way to stop the children fearing difference of others as an adult. The fear of others differences has led to many prejudices and conflicts both small and massive.

Also a lot of secondary schools have RS as a non optional choice for GCSE, so your kids will have a good headstart with that.

Like I’ve said I genuinely don’t believe this is the case. He’s always keen to be extremely respectful of others beliefs and religion and is more worried he is offending someone by not being respectful enough than anything else.

but acknowledging and celebrations of different festivals in schools gives the children a taste of other cultures, and what about the children of different cultures in the school surely they should be allowed to celebrate and share their festivals its their school as we as the "Christian " children.

So your husband isn't even religious, he's an atheist? Who does he think he is taking offence on other's behalf?

Does he think we religious folk are too timid to speak up if we found something our school was doing offensive?

It all feels a bit 'white saviour' to me....
Has he any evidence at all that anyone is actually offended?

yes this.