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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

What do you think the end of Western civilisation will look like?

184 replies

curiousabouttheaesthetics · 07/11/2023 17:59

Am hopeful it won't be for a good while yet Grin

But with the whole world being so uncertain at the moment, with climate change and resource wars and mass migration on the horizon, I guess who knows what the coming decades could be like?

Hopefully though human ingenuity can find ways of muddling along as long as possible. If we can't, and if in 100 years high wet bulb temperatures and flooding and antimicrobial resistance has pretty much whittled down half or more of the world's population - do you think then the remaining people would set aside geopolitical differences? To get their smartest people working together to solve environmental problems? And with the rich everywhere pitching in resources?

Or do you think rich countries will just continue to try to hog resources until the bitter end of humanity?

OP posts:
HunterBidensBurnerPhone · 07/11/2023 21:05

Like now. It's happening now.

spookehtooth · 07/11/2023 21:06

@Dymaxion You think the UK is the "global western order"? Maybe at the height of the British empire that might have been a reasonable assumption. Look at the balance of wealth in the world, the military might and the clout of the Western nations within the global rules based system they designed. How you reckon that was financed? The outsourced production around the world, and the corporations involved in extracting the natural resources. Put all the pieces together to see the greed and the system that sustains the wealthy nations.

Remember too, how recently so many of the less wealthy nations have been independent. How recent the rise of the so-called BRICS nations is. The manipulation of some of those countries goes on to this day. Some of those lands are the origin of people's fears. Coincidence? Or is the disparity of wealth and opportunity, and the way they've been used playing some role?

Blackandwhitemakesgrey · 07/11/2023 21:07

Which court practices sharia law, do enlighten us.

I have no intention of entering into a discussion with you. Off you trot now to report more posts.

wesurecouldstandgladioli · 07/11/2023 21:08

BethDuttonsTwin · 07/11/2023 18:40

Agree. I marvel that so many are in denial about this. They just throw out lazy accusations of “racism” “Islamophobia” “hate” “bigotry”. I have reached the point that I believe those knee jerk responses to be fear based because they know deep down that there’s no alternative but to be as nice and accepting as possible and hope that setting a good example will protect them. It won’t.

It’s good to hear this from someone actually from the ME with experience of both ways of life. We know peaceful, moderate Muslims are the majority, but the extremists are making things very difficult for everyone and there’s enough of them to influence and bring about unwanted societal changes. it isn’t bigoted or hateful to recognise that.

How have Muslims made life difficult for you, go on, stun us with your insight.

Have they stolen your council house?

Have they taken your child’s school place?

Have they made you 1 year late for your NHS operation?

Has a Muslim eaten your hamster?

Enlighten us!

Livelovebehappy · 07/11/2023 21:09

I’ve never felt as pessimistic about the future of civilisation as I do now. It just feels like the beginning of the end. Countries are turning on each other. People in the same countries living side by side, due to differing values and cultures, are turning on each other. Climate change is progressing at an alarming rate. I think Covid was the start of more intermittent viruses which are going to be with us for much of the foreseeable. I think the human race deserves everything coming to them, and the world needs to be ‘reset’.

wesurecouldstandgladioli · 07/11/2023 21:10

Blackandwhitemakesgrey · 07/11/2023 21:07

Which court practices sharia law, do enlighten us.

I have no intention of entering into a discussion with you. Off you trot now to report more posts.

So predictable. I haven’t reported any posts actually, the whole thread is a hive of hatred, off you trot to spill more bile.

Lesina · 07/11/2023 21:12

Iamacatslave · 07/11/2023 18:06

Slough.

😂😂😆😂

curiousabouttheaesthetics · 07/11/2023 21:13

HunterBidensBurnerPhone · 07/11/2023 21:05

Like now. It's happening now.

No, it isn't.

Most people in Western countries are not literally starving at the moment. Most people have clean water to drink. We still have antibiotics that work in the majority of infections, though resistant superbugs are accelerating depressingly fast.

Children go to school and young adults can go to uni or further training. Working adults still get their paychecks.

We are nowhere near the end - there is so much scope for things to get much worse. If we are moving towards the end hopefully the destruction can be slowed or stopped, but even if it can't, we should appreciate the time now for how stable and steady it currently is for the majority in the West.

OP posts:
biscuitnut · 07/11/2023 21:15

wesurecouldstandgladioli · 07/11/2023 21:03

The group that commits most anti-semitic attacks in the UK are the far right, who are white.

The Home Office figures show that “In year ending March 2021, where the perceived religion of the victim was recorded, just under half (45 percent) of religious hate crime offences were targeted against Muslims (2,703 offences),”

The second most targeted group was Jewish people with 22 percent.

And who is overwhelmingly committing these attacks against Muslims and Jews? White people.

So if multiculturalism’s is failing, place blame at the right door.

https://www.trtworld.com/life/muslims-most-targeted-group-for-hate-crimes-in-england-wales-50723

I wouldn’t disagree that white people are guilty of racism. White people were also
marching through london intimidating London born Jews.

Ohwhatadag · 07/11/2023 21:16

I think it will depend on which country you live in. In Western countries we have been sort of the same (ish) over the past couple of delades, but now we are starting to separate out.

Me and dh have lived 3 "Western" culture countries, with superficially similar way of lives. But our possibilities, lifestyles and income has varied hugely. I expect this to become more so as the impacts of climate change and the sixth mass extinction happen.

Read this: www.okdoomer.io/10-reasons-our-civilization-will-soon-collapse/

Basically, our population and lifestyle is not sustainable. I think different countries will battle down the hatches and deal with it differently.

Livelovebehappy · 07/11/2023 21:17

wesurecouldstandgladioli · 07/11/2023 21:08

How have Muslims made life difficult for you, go on, stun us with your insight.

Have they stolen your council house?

Have they taken your child’s school place?

Have they made you 1 year late for your NHS operation?

Has a Muslim eaten your hamster?

Enlighten us!

I would say currently making a lot of Jews in this country very fearful at the moment, with protests on our streets, and by trying to drag us into a war that’s not ours. I’m all for peaceful protest, but these protests are becoming increasingly hostile towards a section of the community who want to be safe and go about their lives without physical and verbal threats.

wesurecouldstandgladioli · 07/11/2023 21:21

Livelovebehappy · 07/11/2023 21:17

I would say currently making a lot of Jews in this country very fearful at the moment, with protests on our streets, and by trying to drag us into a war that’s not ours. I’m all for peaceful protest, but these protests are becoming increasingly hostile towards a section of the community who want to be safe and go about their lives without physical and verbal threats.

The right to protest is a fundamental British right. A handful of idiots hijacking a protest doesn’t mean the protests are racist. There is a genocide happening as we speak, it is not wrong to protest that.

There have also been Jews arrested for assault, are you going to accuse them of making the Islamic community fearful as well?

The police have rightly arrested anyone breaking the law, whatever their religion.

Can you name who intimidated Jews?

And as for this not being Britain’s war, Britain has dirty hands in this conflict too, it has always sought to divide and conquer.

bombastix · 07/11/2023 21:21

Yes I think many Jews are worried and frightened; it's a hard time for friends in the UK.

Obviously there is a whole debate board for the underlying issue, but it has made me think more about what multiculturalism means in the U.K. It looks like some people think about it very differently from me.

user746016 · 07/11/2023 21:31

wesurecouldstandgladioli · 07/11/2023 20:24

Yep, and she thinks saying she’s from the Middle East gives her carte blanche for bigotry.

And surprise surprise she’s been on other threads saying that the events in Gaza are not genocide and that the Israelis are right to bomb. I wonder which part of the Middle East she is from.

this conflict is polarising our country and bringing racists out if the woodwork who think it’s ok to post racist crap on every thread.

wesurecouldstandgladioli · 07/11/2023 21:31

RosaGallica · 07/11/2023 20:41

I find it concerning that @HermioneWeasley's post, which many agreed with, was deleted. Almost as concerning as the protests she was talking about.

This is hilarious, you think it’s concerning that a post was deleted but also concerning that protests are not banned. Freedom of speech only for some eh?

wesurecouldstandgladioli · 07/11/2023 21:33

user746016 · 07/11/2023 21:31

And surprise surprise she’s been on other threads saying that the events in Gaza are not genocide and that the Israelis are right to bomb. I wonder which part of the Middle East she is from.

this conflict is polarising our country and bringing racists out if the woodwork who think it’s ok to post racist crap on every thread.

Exactly. It’s like Brexit all over again, people think this gives them the excuse to be racist.

BethDuttonsTwin · 07/11/2023 21:41

wesurecouldstandgladioli · 07/11/2023 21:08

How have Muslims made life difficult for you, go on, stun us with your insight.

Have they stolen your council house?

Have they taken your child’s school place?

Have they made you 1 year late for your NHS operation?

Has a Muslim eaten your hamster?

Enlighten us!

None of those even crossed my mind, strange that they did yours…

Usual, lazy, fearful response 🙄

RubyRubyRubyRubay · 07/11/2023 21:41

Contraceptives in the water supply to whittle down the minions to make way for AI.

A few rich families and their bloodlines having entire countries to themselves with AI doing all the work with no payment needed. A few metric tonnes of frozen egg and spermatazoon harvested from a selection of the worlds healthiest human specimens to keep the gene pool rich.

The world will literally be a paradise for the very rich. Unlimited resources, breathtaking, natural beauty and ecosystems restored. No hungry, dirty, poor people complaining and making the place look messy.

I hope they look after it this time.

wesurecouldstandgladioli · 07/11/2023 21:44

BethDuttonsTwin · 07/11/2023 21:41

None of those even crossed my mind, strange that they did yours…

Usual, lazy, fearful response 🙄

You said Muslims have made life difficult for you, but won’t say why. I’ve tried to help you by giving you some gutter press propaganda.

HermioneWeasley · 07/11/2023 21:46

I can’t believe my post has been deleted. I’m a woman from a Muslim background expressing my concern and I’ve been silenced. I know better than anyone that not all Muslims are terrorists or want to live with backwards repressive regimes, but it made my blood run cold to see the scale of people who do want that and have been very public about their desire for sharia law, ending women’s rights, gay rights and killing Jews feeling perfectly comfortable expressing those views in LONDON.

wesurecouldstandgladioli · 07/11/2023 21:56

HermioneWeasley · 07/11/2023 21:46

I can’t believe my post has been deleted. I’m a woman from a Muslim background expressing my concern and I’ve been silenced. I know better than anyone that not all Muslims are terrorists or want to live with backwards repressive regimes, but it made my blood run cold to see the scale of people who do want that and have been very public about their desire for sharia law, ending women’s rights, gay rights and killing Jews feeling perfectly comfortable expressing those views in LONDON.

Thousands of people protested peacefully. 6 people were charged with public order offences.

Your hyperbole that this made your blood run cold is what’s chilling.

And it’s hypocritical that you want protests banned but are outraged at being silenced yourself.

travelnorth · 07/11/2023 21:56

@HermioneWeasley Quite a few people are seeing this much more because of how things have unfolded since October 7th. Hopefully people start questioning how things would be heading just in a few years. I have been utterly shocked and disgusted.

StarDolphins · 07/11/2023 21:57

wesurecouldstandgladioli · 07/11/2023 20:28

‘I’m not British born, but…’ seems to be the new ‘I’m not being racist, but…’

Or, they could just not be British born & not bring racist? Your opinion isn’t the only opinion.

Mumaway · 07/11/2023 21:59

We're at least 50% of the way there. Everyone is fucking miserable, there's no bloody money and inflation means you can't buy anything anyway.

StarDolphins · 07/11/2023 22:02

travelnorth · 07/11/2023 19:48

@HermioneWeasley exactly what you said. For our family seen the marches this last month was the last straw. We are leaving not just the U.K. but Europe in the next couple of years. The amount of criminals and extremists that arrived in the last decade and with a supposedly right wing government. Really scary times so for me part of the West as we knew it is already gone. Also, people are so scare are to say anything. Mental!

Edited

I agree with this.