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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be sad at the lack of compassion

138 replies

Gifgirl · 07/11/2023 10:16

Reading through some threads makes me so sad (and mad) sometimes.

Excluding teenagers from homes due to MH conditions, being cross about flags on stickers cos they are rainbows, encouraging your kids to not date someone cos they have a disability.. etc etc.

Acceptance and kindness is a wonderful thing and would make the world a much lovelier place.

Please encourage your kids to accept and include people even if they are different to you. We won't move on until this happens.

OP posts:
arethereanyleftatall · 07/11/2023 11:57

Prelapsarianhag · 07/11/2023 11:04

Agree with you OP. There is a lot of transphobia on mumsnet. Fortunately most younger women are much more accepting of diversity - many would not join mumsnet because of its tolerance of transphobia.

Do you really not see the irony?!?

Where is your tolerance towards people who believe sex is immutable?

Where is your acceptance of the poor women who have been traumatised in the past by a man and would rather like single sex spaces?

arethereanyleftatall · 07/11/2023 11:58

There is NO solution @Gifgirl that allows both women to have single sex spaces and men to access women's spaces if they feel like it. None.
And my 'kindness' will go towards the women rather than the men.

Helleofabore · 07/11/2023 11:59

I think that today there has been many accusations of transphobia and hate where there is none. It is simply a silencing tactic.

However, I am always amazed when so many women articulate their needs clearly on MN and what is clear is that it is not just women who post on its feminist boards despite those accusations too. This is a huge concern and I think that some posters misjudge the degree of knowledge that has now built up.

It seems rather hypocritical OP to declare that the world should be more accepting, when you don't seem to accept that there are women and girls who don't agree with you. Not out of hate or intolerance, but because they understand more deeply than you the ramifications of merely being 'accepting' as you seem to advocate. Acceptance without exception is not 'kind' or 'compassionate'. Far from it. Yet, that seems to be your view for life. So be it.

Why start a thread to shame others who don't agree with your view? Hardly kind or tolerant or compassionate, is it?

munecats · 07/11/2023 11:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Women are quite right to stand up for their rights and to prevent men and it is men who are pushing trans ideology on women and children, women must accept men as women, in our spaces, giving us personal care, in our women's refuges? What about that girls volley ball team in the US last year who were banned from their own changing room because they refused to change with a male who said he felt like a girl? Why was he privileged to use those spaces over actual girls? It is disgusting and frightening what is going and on supporting that ideology so blindly is actively harmful and unkind to women and children, but as long as the men are happy am I right handmaidens?

Wimpeyspread · 07/11/2023 11:59

Gifgirl · 07/11/2023 10:44

Probably best to give someone a chance to reply to a post before accusing them of ignoring you.

Really sorry to hear of your traumas. I am in the same position; I was sexually and physically abused by my Dad and my cousin.

Whilst I COMPLETELY agree that we need to find a solution regarding shared spaces, I cannot get on board with trans hate. They are people too. And not all of them are out to hurt us.

‘Hate’ is an overused word. Disagreeing with someone, or criticising their behaviour is not hate. Life is not black and white, there are many shades between unconditional love and hate. I am fed up with people weaponising the word ‘hate’ against people who have different views to themselves, or who object to certain behaviours, or who want to preserve safeguarding. It’s NOT hate, it’s a different point of view

canonlydoblue · 07/11/2023 12:00

My children play with and accept a variety of different children. But I do shut down the nonsense they hear from some of these children. Being kind does not trump telling the truth. Being kind does not excuse abomination. Being kind does not sit back while children and vulnerable adults get railroaded into cult like practices. Being kind does not mean I have to accept and affirm your mental illness. Being kind does not mean I will put my children into dangerous or imapropriate situations.

arethereanyleftatall · 07/11/2023 12:00

@LadyGrinningSoul85

There is no such thing as a trans kid.

Your kid may not conform to gender stereotypes and that's absolutely fine. Go wild. Embrace it.

Do not dare allow your child to become so entitled as to believe their feelings trump half the population.

GrannyPantsAreGreat · 07/11/2023 12:06

@Applebottomjeenz
Funny that, 'Aggressive and unkind' is exactly how I'd describe many transrights activists. I'll not be told to 'be kind' just because I am female. Unfortunately, sometimes It's not as simple as being nice.
I urge you to have a look on Reduxx.info. Perhaps then you'll rethink the notion of blindly 'accepting everyone'.

Anycrispsleft · 07/11/2023 12:07

I wowon'be teaching my girls to be kind. They already are kind. There is enormous societal pressure on girls and women to put their own needs last. God help them in having to deal with that but at least I can offer an alternative view... that they are perfectly fine as they are and it's fine if they look out for themselves first because who else ever will, other than their old mum?

And you can sod off with your trans hate accusations OP. I campaigned for trans rights in my youth. None of us, not even my trans friends, imagined that would mean giving any man carte blanche to walk all over women's sports, women's equality legislation or women's spaces. Anyway the tide is turning, people are listening to women like Kathleen Stock and Maya Forstater and even the Labour Party has woken up to the fact that there are conflicting needs here that need to be balanced.

arethereanyleftatall · 07/11/2023 12:09

Did anyone see the video doing the rounds at the moment of a girls teeth being knocked out in a hockey match by a male? In a girls match.

Please could someone on the be kind/tolerant side articulate to me what is kind about that? Because I really don't get it.

munecats · 07/11/2023 12:10

GrannyPantsAreGreat · 07/11/2023 12:06

@Applebottomjeenz
Funny that, 'Aggressive and unkind' is exactly how I'd describe many transrights activists. I'll not be told to 'be kind' just because I am female. Unfortunately, sometimes It's not as simple as being nice.
I urge you to have a look on Reduxx.info. Perhaps then you'll rethink the notion of blindly 'accepting everyone'.

Edited

Well said and yes that website and the work of Ms Gluck is quite the eye opener if you don't what the TRA's to pull the wool over your eyes on this issue.

Sure be kind but don't be a mug or a fool.

Fionaville · 07/11/2023 12:12

"Be kind, shut up and accept that your rights are being eroded"
If you want to debate the trans flag issue then do it on that thread.
Stop grouping MH issues and disabilities with the trans agenda, just to score points. There are plenty of disabled people and people with MH issues, who don't agree with the trans propaganda either.

Nineteendays · 07/11/2023 12:13

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Accept everyone?

what an odd thing to teach your child. Accept everyone. Accept men coming into your daughters changing spaces. Accept boys joining your daughters swim team. Accept it all. Accept the men taking over all the women’s spaces.

my daughter will be taught that her feelings count. That she shouldn’t just blindly accept everyone and everything. That fairness isn’t acceptance.

YouJustDoYou · 07/11/2023 12:13

arethereanyleftatall · 07/11/2023 12:09

Did anyone see the video doing the rounds at the moment of a girls teeth being knocked out in a hockey match by a male? In a girls match.

Please could someone on the be kind/tolerant side articulate to me what is kind about that? Because I really don't get it.

It's horrific. Just like the poor girl in the volleyball match who was given a fractured skull and brain injuries by the male who smashed the ball into her. It's "be kind to males". We wouldn't want to hurt their feelings now would we by not allowing them to play sports with people weaker and smaller and slower than them (aka "females").

unsync · 07/11/2023 12:14

Hobnobswantshernameback · 07/11/2023 10:51

So everyone has been polite and reasonable
but then someone has to call us "narrow minded arseholes"
oh the irony

You forgot the pearl clutchers? Can they not be outraged too? #bekind 🙄

Codlingmoths · 07/11/2023 12:16

I teach my children to accept everyone they meet, I ask them what do you think x thought to remind them the children at school with additional needs think about things just like them. I would never allow them to think another child is right if they told them they could change sex, since you can’t. I’d say when you’re older you can identify as whatever you like but honestly we will support you to be the best version you can be of who you want to be and when people are happy with who they are and express themselves however they want to, whether it’s more like typical boys or more like typical girls, then that’s the best outcome. That’s being kind. But I will teach my daughter especially that she matters and to stand up for what she wants and believes in, and if others disagree then tough shit, you need friends but you do not need everyone to like you. Enough with the hate accusations, go do something to genuinely support a fellow human being op.
And yes mumsnet is often extremely kind and supportive and caring for people in their time of need.

MavisMcMinty · 07/11/2023 12:16

Oh @Gifgirl . Nobody on Mumsnet that I’ve ever seen feels hatred towards trans people, especially not the mixed-up kids being corralled into terrible experimental physical treatment for what is essentially poor mental health.

There’s a justifiable fear and anger towards trans rights activists, most of whom are even trans themselves, threatening violence, rape and death to “TERFS”. I have never seen a gender critical poster wish violence, rape or death upon a trans person. Have you?

There’s a perfectly healthy suspicion of full-grown adult men who suddenly declare they’re trans and have been all their lives (apart from the decades spent fathering their children and husbanding their wives). Never-mentioned-before gender dysphoria is just their excuse to [redacted].

There is also righteous disapproval of allowing men into women-only spaces. It may not matter to some women but it bloody well matters to others, and you don’t get to over-rule them.

Even here, in rural farming Devon, surrounded by cows/bulls, ewes/rams, cocks/hens, boars/sows, there’s a factory that summarily dismissed a worker who accidentally asked the transwoman in the office what she’d liked to do when she was a boy.

It can seem as though trans identity is the ONLY protected characteristic in the Equalities Act, going by the hundreds of employment tribunals where gender critical women have been fired for believing there are only two sexes.

If supporting women’s rights is “transphobic” that’s because there’s a clash of rights. Supporting trans rights - and can you tell us what rights they don’t have, I wonder? - is misogynistic, in the same sense.

Ffsnotaconference · 07/11/2023 12:19

Gifgirl · 07/11/2023 10:16

Reading through some threads makes me so sad (and mad) sometimes.

Excluding teenagers from homes due to MH conditions, being cross about flags on stickers cos they are rainbows, encouraging your kids to not date someone cos they have a disability.. etc etc.

Acceptance and kindness is a wonderful thing and would make the world a much lovelier place.

Please encourage your kids to accept and include people even if they are different to you. We won't move on until this happens.

I think you are completely wrong.

Teens shouldn’t be put out of a house simply because they have mental health issues. I would bet money no one has said that. I would bet that people have advised it may have to be an option due to the emotional and/physical impacts on others living in the house.

How is there no compassion in suggesting that? You are saying that it’s only compassion if your sympathy is only with the teen with mental health issues. What about compassion for the people who are being traumatised by having that teen in the house? Why don’t you have any for them?

The rainbow sticker situation isn’t how you described it. On the trans issue, I have lots of compassion. For women.

On the not wanting your child to date someone disabled. Whats the actual issue there?

I am going to guess it’s a case (again) of you simply believing people aren’t being compassionate to the people (or in the way) you think they should.

VickyEadieofThigh · 07/11/2023 12:19

MinnieL · 07/11/2023 11:40

So let’s just forget about people are gay, lesbian, bisexual and so on huh? Pride all of a sudden represents men who are allowed in women’s changing rooms? Get a grip

I'm lesbian. That is EXACTLY what the flag with the pink, gray (etc - stay awake, because they keep on adding bits to it) bits means to me now.

HowsOneToKnowItsTime · 07/11/2023 12:20

AtrociousCircumstance · 07/11/2023 10:53

No such thing as a trans child. There’s a boy or girl who is gender non confirming, which is awesome. But Trans is a pathway that encourages medicalisation and surgery to kids who just don’t want to align themselves to gender stereotypes (and seeing through gender stereotypes is great, I shall say again). Adults have a lot to answer for in reframing non conforming kids as kids who need to deny their own bodies.

I couldn't agree with you more. I've always been a tomboy. Even till this day most of my clothes come from the "men's" section and I have stereotypically masculine hobbies and style. People nowadays tend to automatically assume I'm either trans or NB. It's incredibly demoralising because it brings me back to being a kid and hearing about what things/clothes/hobbies are for girls and which ones are for boys. What happened to the idea that girls can be however they are? Gender roles and stereotypes are in vogue once again.

Chanelbasketballandchain · 07/11/2023 12:21

it's a dog-eat-dog world. Don't teach your kids to "be kind", teach them to stand up for themselves, and not being bullied.

It's never the "kind" child who will be picked up at school for sports tournaments, for competitions, for the lead role in a play. It doesn't pay to be the "kind boy" or the "kind girl", it only brings upset kids.

We shouldn't be bullied for defending women's rights, and be called "transphobic" for it, but "be kind" takes us nowhere.

JaxiiTaxii · 07/11/2023 12:24

Does #bekind extend to putting the phone down, getting off ones backside and using your valuable free time giving practical help and support to vulnerable groups?

Making an actual difference to people in your community is kind and compassionate.

Typing vagueries on social media chastising others is #doingnothing.

HowsOneToKnowItsTime · 07/11/2023 12:26

VickyEadieofThigh · 07/11/2023 12:19

I'm lesbian. That is EXACTLY what the flag with the pink, gray (etc - stay awake, because they keep on adding bits to it) bits means to me now.

Don't forget how in many lesbian communities you're now labelled as transphobic for not wanting to date TW or even, god forbid, know that someone is T beforehand. People say it's "their personal medical history" and they're afraid of violence but of course no one cares about the woman having full consent.

MattDillonsEyebrows · 07/11/2023 12:29

The problem is @LadyGrinningSoul85 , it's likely that those you describe as 'narrow minded, pearl clutching arsehole' who are more likely to be the ones who protect your trans son.

I was a probation officer for almost 20 years, and can tell you that if your trans son, ever got in with the wrong crowd and ended up in prison, you would not want them to go to a male jail. In a true Stonewall utopia, your trans son would go to a male jail, and a transwoman would go to a female one, can you honestly not see the issue here?

People often talk about trans men and trans women as though they are the same, and they really aren't. Trans men simply don't have the same threat of danger to others that transwomen do. The sad truth is that people with penis's are more likely to be sex offenders, violent or fetishists, no matter what they cover that penis with, the threat remains much higher than with women.

As for the 'be kind' brigade, like most people, I will be kind to anyone on a personal level. As the mother of a very hyperactive girl, who rarely gets invited to parties, I am very mindful of their conduct around others and accepting behaviour but I am very clear to them that be kind does not mean 'shut up' or 'pipe down' and I will fight all the way for women and single sex spaces.

Helleofabore · 07/11/2023 12:30

YouJustDoYou · 07/11/2023 12:13

It's horrific. Just like the poor girl in the volleyball match who was given a fractured skull and brain injuries by the male who smashed the ball into her. It's "be kind to males". We wouldn't want to hurt their feelings now would we by not allowing them to play sports with people weaker and smaller and slower than them (aka "females").

And the teenaged girls in the rugby match a year or so ago who were seriously injured when a male was allowed to join the female team and injured several female players in the competing team.

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