Aibu to not help Scouts…

[SecretsOfSunshine]

Name changed as identifiable.

Ive caused a bit of fall out, and didn’t expect it. I’m a bit of an accidental scout leader, not the main Akela but there weekly. My children went through scouts, the youngest is aging out. I’ve always been happy enough to help, I like kids. It’s not however something I’m hugely attached to either. I stayed mainly as they were short of leaders, and I enjoy it enough when there.

A parent complained that at camp they are feeding and housing the adults, we don’t pay to attend camps and we do eat.

Group section leader agreed, apparently other local packs do charge leaders for food over the weekend.

I didn’t get funny or stroppy, but I did say I’m out for camps. I said I don’t mind giving up my time, but it was a line for me to give up my weekend and pay for the pleasure. If I ate at home (large family) my food costs no where near the cost as the difference between cooking 5/6 portions is absorbed in the weekly food bill the same. Plus the scouts tend to overbuy and spend a lot more than is really needed tbh.

Another leader has now contacted me to say how strongly they disagree with me, also that I’m jeopardising the camp as they are already short on leaders. GSL has implied if I’m not committed maybe I should leave. Parents are moaning apparently.

The more I think the more pissed off I am. Tbh I’m ready to leave anyone between the increase in behaviour issues and local politics in the district. Camps have a horrible side of severe sleep deprivation and I also sometimes lose work shifts going or family commitments.

Is it really normal to begrudge volunteers their food and board in exchange for a weekend away for £50 and amazing activities laid on? I know when I was a teacher we were also included in costs spread among the kids. With 30/40 kids it’s hardly the bulk of the bill either

Exactly this.

The idea of charging adults volunteers in this situation is the most bonkers thing I’ve ever heard of! I’m so so appreciative of the people who give up their time (and sleep) to look after my ds on camps and every week. The idea they should be charged for food is baffling!

All the money in the world wouldn't make me go and spend a weekend in a chilly, damp, rickety camp bed in a village hall (if the places my own dc's spent their days at camp are anything to go by)with a load of screaming kids!

They should be grateful you're giving your time the cheeky feckers!

And that's why groups are struggling for volunteers. Honestly do sad .

Who are these people? Who the hell do they think they are?

I would walk away and suggest the complainant takes your place and enjoys her “free” lunch. Fuck them.

I'd walk away and make it known to the wider group (a 'reply all' would be handy if that's an option) that whilst you are willing to give up your free time you can neither afford nor expect to have to pay to attend camp to supervise all the children so you will be stepping down and pass on the responsibility to any parent volunteer. Thanks for the opportunity blah blah blah

Cheeky fuckers!! I work in the volunteering sector and it is harder than it's ever been to recruit & retain people so the parents & other leaders are being totally ridiculous to think they can charge you and still expect you to be willing!

Fuck them.
Walk away.

They need you. You don't need them. They don't have the power they seem to think they do

The form for Girlguiding residentials does now suggest that it is best to have two emergency contacts who do not live together to maximise the chances of being able to contact someone. Not that parents ever read that bit!

Leave TODAY.
MONDAY 6 NOVEMBER!!!

Walk away! There is some real CF behaviour around volunteering and it is getting worse. I volunteered to do a performance at an event recently - myself and the other volunteers were fed a slap up meal and given travel expenses as a thank you. Seems the least that you should be able to expect.

This really annoys me, you totally shouldn't be paying. It's always the same parents helping out and always the same ones not helping and complaining. Bin them off op.

I think its acceptable for the group to decide to change their policy, it's not a change I would make if in charge but their decision. With that it is completely acceptable for you to feel this is no longer for you. If it were me I would run for the hills, I'm not paying to volunteer!

Guide leader here- in 20+ years of going away with Guides and Rangers none of the adults have been charged. We factor in the cost of the leaders food, camp fees and entrance fees when we work out the cost.
If a leader wants to, they can bring some snacks to share, or cakes etc.

We give up our time (for a week long camp annual leave too!) - it's not just the week/weekend away there are all the planning meetings, the shopping, the loading of cars with the mountains of tents and kit, organizing payments and forms- hour and hours of it.

Don't get me wrong- it's great taking kids away, but it's absolutely not a holiday!

Plus: some leaders would find the additional costs too much, single parents, on benefits, they have time to give, not money.

Sometimes a leader will make a donation to cover their costs (which we can claim gift aid on) but we never ask.

Tell your GSL to get lost, they are wrong on this one!

Unbelievable. Who on earth would even think of this as an issue?

YNBU.

My kids go to cubs, I can't imagine complaining about the leaders not paying for food and board!! What sort of parents are these?! Fuck em, tell them to get lost and don't give it another thought

I’m a scout leader and in 20 years the only time I’ve ever paid anything was at camps where I went as a member of staff rather than as a leader. I’m so shocked that there are groups out there who charge their leaders for the “ pleasure” of volunteering to take responsibility for other people’s kids for a weekend. An international trip would be the only time I’d expect to pay something, and even then would expect food would be subsidised. I would 100% walk if I was in your position.

*A parent complained that at camp they are feeding and housing the adults, we don’t pay to attend camps and we do eat.

Group section leader agreed, apparently other local packs do charge leaders for food over the weekend*

You don't have a parent problem, you have a GSL problem. I would certainly challenge the GSL on this point, I don't know of any groups who charge their leaders for food on camps. If they insist you have to pay, I wouldn't leave completely (I'm an Akela, and I love it) but I wouldn't be organising or attending any activities/camps that required me to pay. It already costs me enough in time, missed work, and petrol without paying anything else on top. And I'd certainly have something to say if the GSL challenged my commitment as a result.

The only time we cover our own food costs is on a day trip where the cubs bring their own packed lunch, then we bring one too. Or on one occasion we visited a diner/restaurant, so leaders paid for their own meal.

I don't fully agree with you about parents going away during camps though. If our DC are not home why should we not take advantage of that? We usually try to be relatively nearby the camp so would probably be quicker to get there than if coming from home. I appreciate not all parents would think like that

It's fine if you are within striking distance, and aren't drinking. But if you are not within an easy distance, then you should have someone nearer as an emergency contact instead. It's really not fair, either on your child or their leader, so expect them to deal with an emergency as serious as needing an operation, just because you want a weekend away.

One of leaders spent hours in hospital with a cub who had broken their collarbone, and then the child had to sleep in a tent because the parents couldn't come to collect their child until 24 hours after the incident, as they hadn't made proper emergency plans.

It worries me that you are acting as a scout leader or whatever you call them yet you are not DBS checked. That would be more worrying for me. especially if you are camping with these kids. I know its nor what you were asking and I know you've been pushed into helping but there's a reason DBS checks are carried out on individuals that help with child activities.

This is ridiculous. Awful you’re being asked to pay & what parent begrudges food for their children’s leaders? I think you’re right not to pay. I’ve volunteered for numerous camps & have never paid. Occasionally you do need to pay but costs are usually covered by the group ( or should be!) also mileage should be paid for too- by the group.

All 3 kids been right through scouts, last in explorers now. We have never had the leaders charged anything for camps, they give their time freely & it couldn't run without them! Even the older explorer who volunteer for junior sections go free to all camps.
To the parent who complained your section leader should be telling them its this or no more camps, oh & they are expected to turn up every week & volunteer now.

The OP hasn't said anything about not being vetted?

OP as everyone has said on this thread, YADNBU - time to move on, and make it very clear to the parents why you are leaving! I was a cub leader and it was the entitled CF parents that hastened my departure.

Where did the OP say that?

Nah, fuck that. Walk away and let them find someone else. Don't be guilted into this.

My advice would be to hit them where it hurts. By which I mean - point out to them that requiring people to PAY to be leaders (which is what they are doing, and you can demonstrate this) is discriminatory and totally against all the things that scouting stands for. You could write to the national organisation pointing this out. All donations from leaders should be voluntary.

So if you are driving around for them - charge them. Charge them for every minor expense you incur in volunteering for them. I can see there is an argument for them charging leaders for food AT COST (what is happening to all the leftover food?) but this charge will probably be less than the cost of reorganising food, and other things, for your family for the weekend - which you will charge them for, of course.

Your main argument is that they are being totally discriminatory at present and barring an increasingly large sector of society from volunteering for them. They will not like this!

If you (or they) feel that this course of action will cost them too much, point out that you will feel free to donate money back to them as and when....

I wouldn’t be attending camp and would feel no guilt about it either. (I used to volunteer as a Brown Owl and DH is a scout leader and I’m now a (very) occasional helper with the Scouts). I’d go mad if DH had to pay for food on camp, it’s bad enough he goes away for the weekend.

He was on camp last weekend, took annual leave on the Friday to transport kit/shopping/setting up and I was left at home with the dc until Sunday. The leaders didn’t finish until several hours after the scouts got home and all the kit was back in the hut and then dh had to go back to the hut three times during the week to sort the drying tents out and move them as other groups were using the hut. I can’t imagine being so tight as to begrudge paying for basic food for someone willing to do that for my own DC.

DH is heavily involved in Scouts.

The ethos of our group is 'keep the leaders happy because without the leaders you can't run the group'.

The troop pay for and feed the leaders.

BUT my bug is that some of the leaders over buy food heavily for camp or buy expensive options. I do the shop for one camp and ALWAYS keep in mind I'm buying for the least well off - so buy the minimum possible for the least amount. We have a spreadsheet we use to buy exact amounts which works well.

I did it in June and kept food for the weekend for 40 to under £6.50 per head - that was Friday tea (hot dogs), Breakfast (sausages, eggs, beans, bread, cereal, milk, orange juice one day and then bacon instead of sausages the other), sandwiches for lunch for two days - (choice of cheese, ham or tuna mayo) with a biscuit, fruit (either apple or banana) and then spag bol for the other night (with veggie alternative) and a cheap cake (usually slice of swiss roll with custard). Then hot choc, squash and tea/coffee (usually have some in stores at least). I think £6.50 for five meals is decent really even though that is a fair amount of food so no one can argue that the kids aren't being well fed. I genuinely couldn't do it for less unless we cut the food amount. HOWEVER I know other leaders have spent far more on other camps.

I would put it straight that you won't be doing camps if you have to pay, you think that too much money is spent on food (perhaps offer to do a shop to demonstrate just how much they are over spending which would save the cost of at least one leader) but if they are insistent that you are 'not committed enough' then thats fine with you and they can stick it.

Its REALLY not the way to run a troop. You tell the parents to stick it (plenty more kids out there that want a place) and look after the leaders - mainly cos a lot of parents are quite frankly a bunch of wankers.

I think the real issue here is the cost of camps generally and the poor planning and budgeting going on.

You have my sympathy on this - this is a suicidal move for the troop.