To want my son to sod off

[Askingforafriend101]

I have 3 kids
17 12 and 6
My eldest is a nightmare!
He left school and didn't bother turning up for collage as its "waste of his time"
I have said about Jobs etc he says they won't pay him enough for his skill (which he has none)
I managed to get him somewhere to work with family and he doesn't bother going says it's boring and he not allowed to work on cars (well yeah he needs to learn first)
Now let's get to the bullying
It is constant.... his other brother will not leave his room and has had panic attacks over it! He intimidates him by going in his face threatening him etc
My house is trashed I'm talking doors been smashed off where he's broken them trying to get in everything I had is broke normally by being thrown at me.
He constantly says I'm a retard and pathetic I should just hurry up and die (I'm not well)
He keeps on saying to "get a job" even though no one would hire someone who has my condition.
I burst out crying and all he did was laugh and throw stuff at me.
I've asked his dad to have him and even drove him up there and soon as he fell asleep he stole money and went to train station and came home.
I've locked him out and he's smashed everything and got in.
We struggle with money and all he does is moan that I'm a brokey pathetic embarrassing etc bare in mind I havent been to hairdressers in 6 years had any new clothes havent spent a single penny on myself.
Tonight again it's reached boiling point... he is saying I need to go out to take little one to see fireworks but I have 0 petrol and 31p in bank... I've said this and he's saying to 6yr old oh what time is mum taking you out fireworks are amazing I said I can't and he said I can I'm just a lazy retard and telling 6yr old to get her shoes etc so I can take her to a display over an hr drive away... despite saying 100 times I can't!

No other family can help I have no friends and his dad is as useless as wet 2ply tissue

Social won't help except give counselling to the other 2 little ones via school

Police will not remove as he's legally a child as just under 18 and there's no concern for his welfare.

Unfortunately until 18th birthday likely to get arrested by the police for child abandonment if insists he leave without alternative home, however detrimental the impact on the family. Sadly abuse by teenage children toward their mother’s (and other siblings) is a major issue with none of the help or legal protection a woman with an abusive partner would have. In fact the complete opposite, the family may as well be at the hands of an abusive partner in Victorian England. Women and siblings get killed in these cases too.
Rather than insist he leaves against his will, better to try and discuss further with social care sooner and see if he can be accommodated by them, call police next time he starts smashing things up and they may take him away for a night and they’ll also refer to social care

police will remove him if he is being violent - which smashing things up to get inside the house is violent.

Call the police and tell them he is being violent and mashing things up and get him removed - its not acceptable for the other two dc.

Give police your ex address and change the locks - if he comes back get a restraining order - you have a dc locking himself in his bedroom to get away from the violence at home

They will try and calm him down and take him away if necessary but if he’s calmed down they will threaten you with child abandonment if you don’t let him back in. Social care will agree to taking care of young person in some cases.
Unfortunately the law is stuck in the dark ages, just as it was for Victorian women whom due to the attitude that the woman must have been a bad wife etc and somehow deserved the treatment and the over riding concern was that she had the responsibility to remain with him, the parallels are uncanny with how society and the law views abuse of mothers by their teenage sons.

Call the cops any time he throws things at you or breaks anything. Sorry I don't have more helpful advice. Can the council help you change residences?

His behaviour is unacceptable, and out of control.
However, he is still a child. Your child. He obviously carries trauma (divorce, your illness, lack of funds) that comes out as anger and abuse.
This boy needs help. Not a kicking out. Talk to him when he's calm. See if he opens up to you and you can start getting those emotions out establishing a stronger bond. Try get some councelling for him if you can.
Human brain only matures and stops developing at the age of 25. There's a lot you can do if you get him on right track now. He is being awful, but dont give up on him. Hugs xx

Oh, and obviously protect yourself first and foremost. Be firm and call the police every single time he gets abusive. He needs to know hes doing crimes. Dont accept name calling either. Its tough love with extra strong boundaries. But don't turn your back on him by changing locks etc.

https://www.pegsupport.co.uk/

A very niaive statement - believe me, you would be very surprised.

OP I would call the police the next time he kicks off and see if he can be removed - preferably back to his dad (and get him to hide his money).

When is he 18?

That's a weird kind of threat, to wind up you daughter saying you should be taking her to see fireworks. Of course you can see fireworks. You just go stand outside with a hot choc and a brolly and watch the sky. Unless you live in the middle of nowhere there will be plenty to see. I can't understand why you wouldn't. Is he trying to say he thinks you need to parent more actively, but in a really nasty way? Have you got ground down by being ill and broke? This would be no surprise - but is there a nugget of truth in what he says?

He is behaving in a way that suggests he has no respect. Obviously it's completely unacceptable. Did his father model this behaviour to him as a child?

I don't have any real advice. I think he's angry and hurting and lashing out. Does he really understand why you don't work? Or did you try to shield him from the information about your illness?

I feel for you. This is domestic abuse. I think you should really try to get his father in board and take him and not let him back in when he returns. Call the police if he tries and say that you can't let him back in as you need to protect your you for children. NOBODY is going to arrest you for child abandonment in these circumstances . Don't be afraid to contact social services for help.

There are no drugs involved.

That's the thing ...I am skint but I budget so there's always 3 meals a day gas and ele water rent internet all paid etc

I can afford 1 or 2 outings a month that would be cinema meal out etc

And they also have takeaway twice a month

Their dad works and runs 3 companies and with things like clothes shoes consoles phones etc they never been without.

They never witnessed any screaming swearing etc apart from the time I stood on lego there was a few fuck mes that night lol but seriously nothing that would lead to this.

I have bowel issues which he is aware of and the implications this has until surgery..

Ridiculous response.

I would call police each time something criminal happens and try social.
he might be 18 but knows the difference in right and wrong.

He’s 17. Still a child. He needs help rather than being thrown out on the streets. Clearly his life hasn’t been great, reading between the lines - absent father, mother whose in poor health so probably hasn’t had neither the time or finance or energy to do things with him when growing up. He sounds very messed up. Can’t you get social services onboard or get their advice for some sort of counselling? Sounds like he has a lot of resentment towards you, and without appropriate background information here on what he’s had to face growing up, it’s difficult for a bunch of strangers on MN to give advice tbh.

I know someone with a 16 year old like this. She has been threatened with arrest for child abandonment, despite 3 younger boys at home who are terrified of eldest.

Yes I agree with this , it's a hard balance as the little ones need protection too

This is awful, he needs to go back to his dads and stay there. Bullying his sibling is totally not on. The way he speaks to you isn’t on. If he tried to smash his way back in, then you call the police

Yes be definitely needs help of some sort but it’s not necessarily ‘his upbringing’ not unusual in these cases to have siblings who are perfectly well adjusted, calm people. Just as people are born with physical, learning and sensory difficulties, some kids are wired to be truly nightmare teenagers, sometimes there are things that may have contributed to difficulties but it’s not helpful to always jump to that as the first conclusion when most people with a similar upbringing wouldn’t behave like that

No, I really think this one needs kicking out. To protect the younger kids if for no other reason.

How long until he turns 18?

Is he able to explain to you why he prefers to live with you rather than his DF?

I know you're his DM but from what he says he doesn't have much respect for you and doesn't enjoy living with you.

Why is it better than being at his Dad's?

How is it child abandonment when it's been arranged for him to stay with his dad?

https://www.domesticabuseservices.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Adolescent-violence-to-parents-booklet.pdf

I'd contact womens aid. This is domestic abuse. And yes you can call the police if he is threatening you violence and breaking things. Speak to any agency you can. You need to start shouting about this. Tell your you get kids school, get them to refer and get younger ones counselling.

Just get him arrested for criminal damage, assault or whatever he gets up to.
refuse to allow him to be bailed to your address.
He is vile and your younger children need protecting

Is there anyone at all in your extended family/network that he looks up to?
A coach, mentor that could speak with him about his behaviour?

i’d second this. Also, is he ever rational? I mean ever? Does he ever talk or do you both argue all the time? Have you had any laughs or anything over the past few years? When did this start? What does he want to do, or does he feel he’s doing it and he just doesn’t want to ever do anything? Does he have aspirations, stuff he wants to get? Does he always plan on living with you? When you say he stole money, do you mean he took enough money to get home? Does he get on at all with his father? When he example smashed up the door what had happened and did he seem angry and out of control or panicked? Sorry to ask you all these questions but thinking about this rationally might help you be able to just figure him out a bit. Changing locks, throwing out, involving police etc sounds a bit too much of a long term standoff and fight iykwim?