to pronounce the name ‘Ciarán’?

[Mummy2Sienna]

I’ve heard ‘KEER-on’ all day on Radio 4, and just now ‘’Keer-ON’. (It’s the Irish spelling of ‘Kieren’ and pronounced as such).

Don’t the BBC have people to teach them how to pronounce names? I can think of a couple of famous Ciaráns. It’s not THAT unusual a name!!

Since even the Irish can't decide how it's pronounced, I'd give the UK media newsreaders a pass, personally.

Yes, I agree.

What is the difference between KEER-on and keer-ON? What do the capital letters change?

Eh, no. The Irish know very well how it's pronounced. Someone in Belfast might say some weird anglicised version but that's very different to how we say it in ROI. Irish is our language and yes, there are dialects but the pronunciation of an 'a' with a fada on it is very standardised.

I'd generally say ‘keer an’ - but not a lot of stress on the second syllable, so almost ‘keer'n’

I did hear some very mangled variations on BBC TV and R4 though

Been driving me mad too! 2 secs with anyone Irish would have cleared it up!

The capital letters denote the syllable that is stressed

It's only Irish names on Mumsnet that people get really fussy about the exact pronunciation and snarky if there name is changed.

My children are bilingual. They and we (and everyone) pronounce their names differently according to which language is spoken.

Sometimes they're not pronounced correctly due to people's accent, but that's the way it is. It's not always down to ignorance.

If the last syllable isn't stressed, isn't it just a schwa anyway? On, awn, an - they're all just the same schwa if not stressed, surely...?

It is pronounced keer-ON/keer-AWN, because of the fada. It is not pronounced like Kieran, which I would pronounce keer-un.

What does that mean?
I remember DS having some homework about things (spellings of suffixes maybe?) changing with stresses, but it makes no sense to me.
Unless you shout part of the word, how do you stress it?
And yes, I'm a native English speaker.

Do they use the fada? If so, they are anglicising the pronunciation.

Ciaran is Keer-un. Ciarán is Keer-awn.

Yes the fada makes all the difference. Just to confuse, I've seen people spell it with the Irish C but without the fada ie Ciaran which would be pronounced the same as the anglicised version Kieran. But if the fada (accent) is present -'Ciarán' then it's important to stress the 'awn' sound. It's much like Seán is pronounced Shawn.

It’s my brothers name and a common name where I grew up. Always Kear-en with the same emphasis on both syllables.

It’s definitely Keeer-awn in Ireland if it has the fada (that accent) on the last ‘a’

I don't think I even know how to pronounce it after this.

Round here (northern; Liverpool/ Cheshire/ Wales) it would be pronounced ki- run.

I think an issue is if people didn't grow up hearing Irish vowel sounds they may not be able to perceive the difference between Keer-on and Keer-awn so they obviously can't pronounce it.

It's like Rhys and Reece. There's more of a roll and a aspirated 'h' to a Rhys, which I always say in my head.

Don’t know how to say it and don’t care.

It's hard to explain in text, it just means you emphasise one vowel over another, in that you spend longer saying one vowel over another. When we say 'elephant' we don't put the same emphasis on both 'e's, the first e is emphasised more than the second.

Say the word politics
Say the word politician

Notice that the stress/emphasis shifts and as a native English speaker you instinctively know this and do this.

Now imagine that you’re not a native English speaker and change where the stress is. Sounds all wrong.

Then some words you get to choose/there are two options for where the emphasis goes - adverTISEment versus adVERTIsement

contROVersy versus CONtroversy

Or think about the name AndREEa versus ANDrea

I noticed this on BBC this morning and thought they'd messed up the pronunciation with keer-on as well. I meant to Google the Irish pronunciation, but forgot all about it.

Is it maybe a complication of rhotic vs non rhotic accents too? Aw and or would be the same sound for me, but not for a rhotic accent.

Although having just seen @RitaFires post I'm wondering if I'm even saying awn right! Is it like the start of 'awning'? Or am I completely barking up the wrong tree?!

I want to throw Key-ran into the mix. Or probably KEY-ran. But I will defer to the native Irish speakers

It's the storm isn't it 😳not some random guy. I was wondering why the BBC were chatting about Ciaráns today