Lying on school application

[strikemehigh]

School mum friend told me yesterday that she's used her NC DM's address for her child's high school application.

Her DM lives in a different county (the one I live in) and friend lives just over the border into a different county. Both our DC are at primary school in her county but obviously I'm applying to my county for high school place.

We are quite rural. Her fake address is middle of nowhere and her real one the same but miles away. Hence the distances to schools.

Anyway, this would be bad enough but she's put 2 schools that as the crow flies from the fake address her child is unlikely to get into. First choice school A, the furthest please given based on distance last year was 3.3 miles and address is about 5. Second choice school B is almost ten miles from fake address and already oversubscribed. DC has no other factors such as EHCP which might help.

She has not put a third choice so 'they'll have to give me one of the choices'. When I explained that isn't how it works child will likely be allocated school C which is the nearer fake address she said she would just appeal.

AIBU that this is short sighted and bonkers? Also fraud - which if she wasn't so unlikely to get her way based on the choices I'd be thinking of reporting.

Ah, thanks for updating.

Am assuming proof of residency still needed though?

I understand the desperation for wanting a certain school (parent too) but I don’t believe you can game the system. Not saying it’s impossible - computers do make errors - but stories of “I did this and it worked” I think are rare.

The idea that only putting one or two schools means you're guaranteed to get them is a myth. It just means that if school 1+2 are oversubscribed then instead of getting school 3 (assuming 3 is a sensible one you should get into) that the child can be given a place anywhere.

Your friend is silly if she thinks she can do this and appeal her way into oversubscribed schools that she's fraudulently applied for.

Oh yes, religious schools set their own criteria too (was taking that out of the equation) couldn’t put the local C of E down (despite it being 2 miles way) for DD as she’s RC.

If she ends up having to appeal she's going to be in a right tangle about where she does live; it's not like it's just a electronic form to fill in, she will have to turn up in person.

And pretty dumb to use the address of a non-contact relative - what if future correspondence is written and posted? - which it might be if she ends up appealing.

If she wasn't so stupid and likely to be the cause of her own downfall, I too would consider reporting it. People say "keep your nose out" but what if it was your child who missed out on a place because this family pushed in where they shouldn't be?

This happened to my daughter's best friend who was pipped at the post for a school she knew she'd be borderline at by another child from the class who used the address of a property they owned and rented out in the same road but a few doors closer to the school. She did report it,,and got the place in the end, but I would have done it on her behalf if she hadn't. It's not fair.

Don't report it. It's got nothing to do with you. I honestly can't get around grassing on someone over something like this.

Also she's probably going to get caught anyway.

Either way its got absolutely nothing to do with you.

If she's NC with her mother, how does she think it's going to work? She won't get any physical communications and I'd the school were to do a simple "does X live here?" enquiry she will be found out immediately.

plus she's going to get Random School C anyway

council tax bill

They cross reference the council tax register - they aren't stupid.

We also had to take a recent utility bill into the school office a couple of weeks before school started - I guess looking for those who had moved into area temporarily and then moved out again after the allocations were announced.

Are there other crimes which you would suggest ignoring because they're "nothing to do with you"? Burglary? Child abuse? Selling drugs to school kids?

Lying on school application is not a victimless crime. They don't just pull up an extra chair for the child whose parents lied. There are finite places at a school so if one child gets a place, another misses out.

I honestly can’t understand why anyone thinks it’s “nothing to do with you”. It’s to do with everyone. It affects society, of which you are a member.

you lied about your address? Why on earth would you put your child in that position? We had a boy in year 8 expelled last week for that exact reason. Your child will have to go through their entire school career knowing they have to lie constantly, and they could be thrown out any day without warning

I used to live in catchment for a popular school where people regularly lied about their actual address to get kids in.

When it snowed, kids were put on early buses to get them home safely. A number of children every year ended up either arguing with school about where they actually lived or not arguing and ending up in a village a long way from home.

Lying is a pretty dickish move.

*Are there other crimes which you would suggest ignoring because they're "nothing to do with you"? Burglary? Child abuse? Selling drugs to school kids?

Lying on school application is not a victimless crime. They don't just pull up an extra chair for the child whose parents lied. There are finite places at a school so if one child gets a place, another misses out.*

I've had a child in my class who had to come on the bus every day when she started at age four because she didn't get a place at her village school. Her sought after village school had people going to it from outside her village. Being driven there in massive cars.

And yes, she did qualify for free transportation but she was four and her mum didn't want her to have to go in a taxi without her.

Not only was she getting the bus every day, in the cold and dark there and back, and paying for it but she was also not at school with the people from her,own village.

You realise that has nothing to do with you not putting down a school. It really really doesn't work like that. I've worked in admissions and this is such a misconception.

All those saying don't report it 'snitching' 'grassing' etc.

How would you feel if it was your child that was 1st or 2nd on the waiting list come 1st September and missed out on a school place because of someone cheating?

I know MN isn't a hive mind but it is very moralistic about some things (eg you shouldn't expect the inheritance you have always been promised) but then so many selfish people when it comes to school admissions.

Why is it a stupid rule? Surely it makes absolute sense to give priority to children who live nearest to schools? Do you think it's OK to lie and take a place from a child who would otherwise get one?

Talking about grassing is so childish. It's fraudulent conduct that harms other children. Where do you draw the line? Would you refuse to report if you witnessed a theft, an assault, a rape, or a murder, because it's grassing and nothing to do with you?

An appeal will fail at the first hurdle because there are no grounds for it, particularly since it will be apparent that fraud is involved and it is fraud.

@TeenDivided is quite right. Denying someone a place they should legitimately be granted, because of a false application is fraudulent behaviour.

Once again, no one chooses a school for their child, they make a preference. If you choose something, it implies that what you choose is what you get. You may or may not get your preference.

I hope she gets rumbled, in fact, OP I hope you report her. Please ignore all these selfish assholes who would happily cheat and tread on some other child’s back. They’d soon be up in arms if it was their child missing out because all the cheats they condone prevailed.

Catchment isn't the priority any longer in my area but I know they do comprehensive checks.

2 years ago we all got an email to say the checks had uncovered fraudulent applications and the whole cohort had to reapply.

If you report your friend, you are not a friend to her at all. What do you intend to do, report her and then go on like normal to her face?

You disapprove of what she's doing, so have a conversation with her about it. If you still feel strongly and decide to report her then be open and honest about it.

Unless she pays the CT at her mum's house and is in receipt of child benefit which is registered to her mum's address then it is meaningless. The system will not class her as living at her mums.

Not always no.

Our criteria is now continuity of education as a priority. So kids that have been in the triad for years can't be kicked out in favour of those moving into the brand new estate next to the school.

It was needed as rural areas can have huge, odd catchments.

I do have some level of sympathy as my DC has absolutely zero chance of getting in to his first choice school (it's so over subscribed and the catchment area is so small). It's our second closest school - first closest is a hovel and he isn't going there! I did have visions of moving in with MIL she was in the catchment area last year but probably not this year? and taking over all the bills etc.

I also looked at moving - but couldn't afford it

It's a sorry state of affairs when you actually have to consider going to these limits to get a semi decent school for your DC.

It's nothing to do with you. Keep your beak out.

If the school is not oversubscribed then there was no need for the false address. It just will make life complicated. If the schools she has chosen are oversubscribed then they will look more closely at the address anyway. It happens a lot where I live and no doubt causes the poor children a lot of distress when they are suddenly not going to the school they thought they were.

Also thick of her to think that they won't give her a school that is not on the list. Of course they will.