To think most female prisoners are sad rather than bad?

[Hereinthismoment]

Watching Time. Obviously I’m saying most and some will be bad. Some will be sad and bad. But it has always seemed to me most are likely to be really vulnerable. No expert though.

Again though, the mum or dad thing is all circumstantial.

Generally, as a wide sweeping average, the mums I saw in prison there was no dad on the scene. So social work we're going straight for long term placement.

If dad went to jail, more a social work intervention childrens hearing monitor scenario.

Trying to think if I dealt with anyone where there was a mum and dad in home and mum went to jail. It's not as common by far.

I did a bit of time earlier this year in a large women’s prison. And I am a woman. The charges against me have now been dropped (another very long story).

OP, I couldn’t agree more. I was disgusted by the incarceration of some of the women. Significant learning disabilities, high end neurodivergence, years and years of grooming, serious chronic mental health conditions. That was at least 75% of the women I met.

Yes, some real “wronguns” but by and large, they needed to be in treatment, rehab, or hospital. Not in prison. We are not reducing the risk of reoffending in these populations, we are making it more likely by removing their housing, support networks, childcare structures and so on.

Of course, it’s not a fashionable view but the women’s estate isn’t oversubscribed like the men’s so it’s easy enough to dismiss it.

I disagree that the back story is irrelevant to some heinous crimes. What leads people to crime is hugely complex and unlikely to be down to just one thing

@MiMouse it isn’t a sexist statement so much as a pragmatic one.

Woman goes to prison and the house is lost and stability is lost. Man goes to prison and the same is not true. No one is claiming that children shrug and get on with things but it isn’t quite the same.

Very true.

So according to this only 4% of the prison population are female.

Thers a really good jordan Peterson video where he explains why this is.

Yes, it is sexist. My husband does most of the childcare, all the school runs, most of the cooking and the cleaning. He schedules play dates and takes the kids to the GP. When the kids are hurt, they call for him first. It'd be utter chaos without him here. We don't all live in traditional patriarchal households, you know.

Anyway, off-topic. I have no doubt you are right, even though women can definitely be bad, and violent, and it seems naive (and again, sexist) to think that they can't be a threat, just because they're women.

I would imagine the majority of the women in prison are single parents.

@MiMouse i know there are exceptions but do you honestly think most homes where a parent ends up in prison have the sort of life you describe there?

I think it was Loretta lynn who did a really good article on why a lot of feminism misses the mark amongst poorer women. It was one of the country western singers anyway!

Or I could’ve said that!

A lot won’t be in stable relationships, anyway, or have much stability full stop. Hence the highly sexist thread title <rolls eyes>

Earlier this year, the wonderful Elaine Miller and Graham Linehan were in conversation with someone else (it’s on Youtube).

Elaine cited a study of MRI’s of incarcerated women and 80% of the women had received blunt force trauma to the head.

I thought that a horrendous statistic.

Trying to think if I dealt with anyone where there was a mum and dad in home and mum went to jail. It's not as common by far.

Last year, I worked with a child in this position. The only one I have known. So this really doesn't mean it's the case for all!! This is just my experience.
The dad seemed to be doing much better(mentally) than most of the women I see in this situation. We work closely with families so hear and see a lot. Most of the mums are keeping everything running happily for their children but once away from them, they are broken, worn out, upset, sad, lonely etc

The dad I worked with told me that while he is stressed or tired sometimes, he doesn't feel like breaking down, it's not effecting him as badly as people kept saying it would and he just doesn't feel or get very emotional about it. He just goes to work, makes the dinner, does the homework etc and carries on each day.

But when we speak with the women in that position they talk about how they cant stop thinking and worrying and imagining the worst. (Their kids tell us that they hear mum cry sometimes, mum believes the kids have never seen/heard her cry)
We all know many men are generally less sensitive about things and less emotional(something that used to bother me quite a lot about men) but in this particular situation, it really worked for this man.
Im going to repeat, Of course this doesn't mean it's the case for all! Just my experience. That was just one man.

But for all the women we see in this situation, they seem to keep it together for the kids but then fall apart themselves.

And 21% of those women are in for non payment of TV licence or council tax.

Due to very poor diagnosis there are a lot of women with ASD and ADHD in prison also. Fern Brady talks about this in her memoir.

My gma worked in a women's prison and said "all sad, many mad, a few bad"
which is not politically correct language but makes a good point.

Having volunteered in a women's prison.

Most had come from a background were being in prison was common.

Most had limited skills in working with complex organisations.

Most had never seen stable relationships were problems were solved reasonably.

Most had poor levels of literacy, some only learned to read in prison.

My experience (largest women’s prison in Europe) is that half of this is true.

So many non English speakers makes life very difficult, particularly as there are very few options for official translation. Chancing it that a Romanian can speak enough Bulgarian to tell someone they are being deported without their 18 month old (in front of a lesson of other prisoners) is very very poor.

Jail for TV licence!!! What the fuck.

When rapist get away with it. Tv licience omg.

That may be your opinion for your family but @MiMouse is correct. The family is far more likely to break up if the mother is imprisoned.

That's an oxymoron. He is a dangerous charlatan.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/07/how-dangerous-is-jordan-b-peterson-the-rightwing-professor-who-hit-a-hornets-nest

According to the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies, approximately 90 people per year are jailed for non-payment of council tax; around 70% of these are women. You can’t be sent to prison for a TV Licensing conviction. The female prison population is approximately 3,300 as of 2023, and the maximum jail penalty for wilful non payment of council tax is 3 months - so this statistic can’t possibly be true.

Yeah, this.

I have a friend who was a prison chaplain for years (men and women). She said exactly the same thing. Most just wanted someone to talk to them and not judge them.
I am enjoying Time but it is harrowing viewing.

Most of the women I met were the lowest level of their crime, being groomed and controlled by men. In fact, a lot of them said that their time on remand was the circuit breaker they needed to get out of an abusive relationship (romantic or not). I actually think a lot of victims would be interested in this, Y’know, most people would want to raise other people up. Particularly if they had been exploited, trafficked, or endentured into modern slavery.

The overwhelming body of evidence shows that men are sentenced much more harshly. Somebody posted loads of links a while back which I may able to dig out.

However, no doubt there are more men in prison for violent crimes etc.

If someone hurts or robs one of my friends or family, I really don’t give a shit what happened to them to lead them to that.