Page 3 | Worried my child will be kidnapped

KittyK8765 · 2023-10-31T19:50:37+00:00

Very anxious parent looking for advice. My ex hasn't had contact with our DD (5) for quite a while now (his choice) but has somehow found out what school she goes to. I have been informed by the school that he has contacted them demanding to be added to the contact list. I am worried about what his agenda is and concerned that he may go to school at the end of the day and pick DD up. School have said that they would release DD to him as he has provided proof that he is named on the BC. DD would be confused and unsettled if she saw him as she hasn't seen him in such a long time. Does anyone have any advice? Thank you in advance

Takoneko · 01/11/2023 07:46

As has been said, schools can’t refuse to hand over a child to a parent with parental responsibility unless there is a court order saying otherwise. If they had concerns about the child’s safety then they could call police who do have the power to intervene temporarily. However based on the information in the OP, police would advise the school to hand the child over. It is not for the school to adjudicate custody disputes, only the courts can do that. In the absence of a court decision they don’t get to decide if and when to let a parent with parental responsibility collect their child. They could try and stall a bit but not indefinitely.

Prescottdanni123 · 01/11/2023 07:52

@User56785

If we had been told there was a kidnapping risk by the mum in this instance, we would stall until she could get to us. So we wouldn't be out and out refusing to hand the child over but we would be preventing the father from getting access. Like I said, if the school don't find this situation weird and worrying, they need more safeguarding training.

WrongSwanson · 01/11/2023 08:01

Prescottdanni123 · 01/11/2023 07:52

@User56785

If we had been told there was a kidnapping risk by the mum in this instance, we would stall until she could get to us. So we wouldn't be out and out refusing to hand the child over but we would be preventing the father from getting access. Like I said, if the school don't find this situation weird and worrying, they need more safeguarding training.

Exactly.

It's strange how passive some people think they would be in this situation

Of course a court order is better, but there are plenty of practical solutions in the meantime that would mean mum might feel able to still send the child to school.

User56785 · 01/11/2023 08:02

If we had been told there was a kidnapping risk by the mum in this instance, we would stall until she could get to us. So we wouldn't be out and out refusing to hand the child over but we would be preventing the father from getting access. Like I said, if the school don't find this situation weird and worrying, they need more safeguarding training.

I still think what you wrote originally is nonsense. I've been teaching for thirty something years. Whether the school finds the situation 'weird and worrying' isn't enough to stop a parent collecting their own child and there is no safeguard training that says that they can. The school have had no choice to say what the legal position is.

StoneWashJeansWithAMatchingJacket · 01/11/2023 08:17

You need legal advice, as others have said. When I was in a similar situation both of their schools said that they had no choice legally but to hand over the children to him, but that they’d call me and take their sweet time getting the children ready so I had time to get there. They’d also call the police in anticipation of a fallout.

Luckily it never came to that because we got a non molestation order put in place and one of the points was that he wasn’t allowed to go to their schools and he wasn’t allowed on either of the streets at drop off or pick up times. I also had another order meaning only I could collect them from school and decide who else was allowed to. The schools legally had to act on that and they were more than happy to- they didn’t want to have to hand over the children to our abuser either.

Original poster

KittyK8765 · 01/11/2023 08:18

Hi everyone, thank you for all the advice.

I have spoken to school again this morning and explained the situation to them. Like some of you have said, school have said they will contact me immediately if he attempts to pick up and wait until I get there. They have also now said that they won't be able to release DD to him as he isn't aware of the password I set (DD's school require anybody new picking up to give a password)

OP posts:

Prescottdanni123 · 01/11/2023 08:26

@User56785

If we were told that there was a kidnapping risk, we could stall. As OP's school have now said that they can.

FlemCandango · 01/11/2023 08:37

Childlawadvice.org.uk

Are an excellent resource for family law info and advice. They have a helpline as well. You can use insurance policies and trade union membership that include legal cover to get affordable legal representation. So consider if you have any policies or memberships that might have legal cover included.

You can use mediation to come up with a parenting plan, access agreement or similar, court will expect that to be tried first before resorting to court proceedings. Unless there is a recent history of DVA. So look at all the options available. If you research free legal resources first you can get more out of an initial appointment with a solicitor.

childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/abduction/

User56785 · 01/11/2023 08:41

Prescottdanni123 · 01/11/2023 08:26

@User56785

If we were told that there was a kidnapping risk, we could stall. As OP's school have now said that they can.

But that's not what I said was nonsense.

You said

"Did you tell school you think he is unsafe/there is a kidnapping risk? If they would still release her after being told that just because his name is on a birth certificate then their safeguarding sounds pretty shocking. Definitely get legal advice."

embod · 01/11/2023 08:50

So the legal position for the school is that if he has PR then they cannot refuse handing over the child. However, if the parent is a ‘stranger’ that doesn’t pick up a child regularly part of a school’s safeguarding procedures would be to contact the resident parent to confirm.

Donkeyseason · 01/11/2023 08:53

SylvieLaufeydottir · 31/10/2023 21:55

I'm pretty sure the school cannot hand over a child just because a man can prove he is the father named on the birth certificate. Surely you would have to change the emergency contacts yourself as the parent

He is as much "the parent" as the DM under the law. What makes you think he's only allowed to be a parent if the mother permits him to be? He has more right to have the child in his custody, legally speaking, than the school does. What basis do you think the child's DM has to pick the child up, legally speaking, other than being named on that same birth certificate?**

Well the fact that she is actually living with and raising the child, and he is not.

Absolutely incredible that a parent who has never parented their child, or has not for very, very many years, can just rock up and take that child home. Surely common sense says this is not in the child’s best interests and is a massive safeguarding concern. It will very obviously be a very traumatic experience for the child!l. Only a parent who does not have the child’s best interests at heart would contemplate this, and so the fact they would do this is evidence that they should not have the child handed to them!

Original poster

KittyK8765 · 01/11/2023 08:56

@Donkeyseason I completely agree!

I think it's absolutely crazy that an absent parent who is basically a stranger to their child, has the legal right to pick up their child from school and take them home and there would be nothing I could do about it! Such a scary thought

OP posts:

overdogged · 01/11/2023 08:57

You can apply straight to court for a prohibited steps order and outline the risks on your application. No need for a solicitor, save yourself the money and go direct to court. Good luck.

Original poster

KittyK8765 · 01/11/2023 08:58

overdogged · 01/11/2023 08:57

You can apply straight to court for a prohibited steps order and outline the risks on your application. No need for a solicitor, save yourself the money and go direct to court. Good luck.

I worry that this would not be granted though, as there have been no previous cases of DV and he's never caused any harm to DD. He's just simply refused to have contact due to "not being ready to be a father"... so I don't think he would be viewed as a risk

OP posts:

TeeBee · 01/11/2023 09:05

Is it worth managing this directly with him? Is there any reason why he can't have contact with her? Do you think things might go more smoothly if you contact him and suggest meeting with her for small periods of time to start with, under your supervision?
If he has PR, at some point he'll be able to have contact with her if he wishes. At least this way, there's will be less chance of nasty surprises.

Maleficentient · 01/11/2023 09:07

@KittyK8765 You would still get a prohibitive steps order and plan for contact. Threatening to just take her is completely out of order. A judge would not be impressed.

overdogged · 01/11/2023 09:09

Kitty - your daughter still doesn't know him though, so it wouldn't be in her best interest to suddenly be picked up by someone she doesn't know. That's the risk.

Lackinginspiration1 · 01/11/2023 09:13

So all that has actually happened is that a child’s parent, who is not abusive, has asked the child’s school to include him in their communications list? I don’t see the problem there. If he wants to step up and start contact with his own child then that should be facilitated, ideally by the child’s other parent. I would hope that he has still been paying maintenance during the time that he has been absent though.

WhamBamThankU · 01/11/2023 09:15

You could request that if he does try to turn up and take her they stall him and inform you so you can get there for her.

neerg · 01/11/2023 09:20

At my school we get this situation about two or three times a year. We can't refuse to let the child go with father unless there is a court order, but we will stall the pick up until the mother has been contacted.

I have never known a father to pick up a child.

Imperfectp3rf3ction · 01/11/2023 09:35

Probably got a new girlfriend spun a story about why he doesn't see dd and is putting in the motions to look like a gem. If there was no issues in relationship if he genuinely wanted to see her he would contact you directly

Original poster

KittyK8765 · 01/11/2023 09:38

Lackinginspiration1 · 01/11/2023 09:13

So all that has actually happened is that a child’s parent, who is not abusive, has asked the child’s school to include him in their communications list? I don’t see the problem there. If he wants to step up and start contact with his own child then that should be facilitated, ideally by the child’s other parent. I would hope that he has still been paying maintenance during the time that he has been absent though.

I have no issue with him being on the contact list if that's what he really wants. My concern is him creating a traumatic experience for our DD. If we went past him in the street, she literally wouldn't know who he was.

I just find it suspicious that after all this time, he's decided to contact school.

No, he doesn't and has never paid maintenance.

OP posts:

Mydpisgrumpierthanyours · 01/11/2023 09:48

I had something similar. School told me they could release my child to their father because he was on the birth certificate.
But they knew the situation so if he turned up they would ring me and stall so I could get there.

Lastchancechica · 01/11/2023 09:52

Pull her out of school, I couldn’t trust them in this scenario without a court order in place.

Any rapprochement needs to go through the courts, and be supervised. Sex offenders register and criminal record checks etc.This man is a stranger to the both of you now, and he has been for many years - caution is absolutely required.

Get the order in place and then consider what safe guards the school have, and whether they are adequate.

Itsnotchristmasyet · 01/11/2023 10:00

I’m glad you contacted the school again.

I have worked in schools for many years and if a parent asked us not to release the child to another parent, then we wouldn’t.

I don’t know if this is legal, because any parent can say that about any parent but I know for a fact many were on the BC.

I didn’t make these rules so I don’t know the ins and outs of them though.

I do know when my ex was trying to do a similar thing, I asked that my DD doesn’t get released to him and they said ok.
My ex isn’t actually on the BC but they didn’t ask anyway.

I would speak to your ex and say that if he wants to have contact with DD then it needs to be through a contact centre.

Tell him that you’ve got legal advice and they’ve told you to ring the police if he tries to pick her up from school without your permission.
I would also be telling the school this too.

Do you know his address?
It’s worth finding out as much info about him as possible, just in case the absolute worst was to happen and he did pick her up.
Has he ever been in trouble with the police?