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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

On the verge of a breakdown (possible ND 5 year old)

85 replies

Blueberrybutterfly · 31/10/2023 19:38

Our 5 year old is extremely hard work. I think he is ND, but not diagnosed yet as he’s very articulate, academic and sociable.
But I’m so bloody exhausted.
He doesn’t stop talking from morning until night. He wakes up at 6am everyday, sometimes earlier, he goes to bed at 7:30/8 but whatever time he goes to bed it doesn’t matter. As soon as he’s awake, he wants us to be up too. One of the things he’ll do is turn on the light in our bedroom while we are still asleep.

He also comes into our bed most nights, from around 2am-4am onwards. And one of us goes into his bed, as space is an issue.

He needs constant attention during the day, he won’t just sit and entertain himself for any of the time.
He also wants us to go to the toilet with him whenever he needs to go, it’s like he doesn’t want to do anything on his own…but he never cries or gets distressed about going to school, in fact he looks forward to it.

We have very little in the way of support. My parents live 3 hours drive away and even when we do see them, they don’t really look after him so we can have a break.

My in laws are in their 70s but good health, they live about 20 mins away, but also don’t give us much support. Whenever they see him, we go round there too. They may occasionally look after him for an hour or pick him up from school, again only got around 20 mins until I come to get him.

Mine and DH’s relationship is at breaking point…we only have him as our one child, but it feels like several. We never get any down time.

I really have no idea what to do: he’s currently testing the boundaries with us more than usual and it’s debilitating.

OP posts:
Bluekangaroo123 · 31/10/2023 19:44

I don’t have any advice as such but have an autistic 5 year old DD who is very hard work too. It’s good that your DS at least enjoys school as my DD has been unable to attend recently due to burn out. It’s hard, really hard. Have you had much feedback from the school? Would you consider seeking a diagnosis? I know it doesn’t solve everything but it has helped us with some strategies as a lot of parenting advice just doesn’t seem suited to ND kids.

Bluekangaroo123 · 31/10/2023 19:46

Also could you afford to pay privately for a child/ family psychologist? My DP & I met with someone every week for a few weeks when we were at breaking point & it was her that helped us on the pathway to getting a diagnosis. We started by reaching out to the school but they just gave us a lot of generic advice.

Didimum · 31/10/2023 19:53

Could you elaborate? I’m not sure I see where the ND behaviour is coming in. Talking a great deal can be flag for ADHD (when with other behaviours) but it seems a little vague from your descriptions. I have two 5yr olds and they both behave like this much of the time. Up at 6, we must go downstairs with them, talk a great great deal, demand a lot of interaction from us (though they have each other so that helps), they have actually only very recently accepted going to the toilet by themselves after I was firm on that with them for a good while.

I’m not saying you’re overreacting, and I’m sorry you’re struggling. Am just trying to get more of a picture of what you think sets him apart from other 5yr olds.

Almostateeagersmum2023 · 31/10/2023 19:58

Sounds like it’s a lack of support issue rather than a ND issue, can you pay for a babysitter?

PurpleSneakers · 31/10/2023 20:00

One thing that stood out for me
“He also wants us to go to the toilet with him whenever he needs to go, it’s like he doesn’t want to do anything on his own…but he never cries or gets distressed about going to school, in fact he looks forward to it.”
^the fact that he goes alone at school no worries suggests that this behaviour may be reinforced by you at home - for kids, any attention (good or bad) can be reinforcing so just give as little as possible attention to situations like the toileting.

Almostateeagersmum2023 · 31/10/2023 20:01

PurpleSneakers · 31/10/2023 20:00

One thing that stood out for me
“He also wants us to go to the toilet with him whenever he needs to go, it’s like he doesn’t want to do anything on his own…but he never cries or gets distressed about going to school, in fact he looks forward to it.”
^the fact that he goes alone at school no worries suggests that this behaviour may be reinforced by you at home - for kids, any attention (good or bad) can be reinforcing so just give as little as possible attention to situations like the toileting.

I used to be scared of the flush when I was little (sensory) so there might be an issue there.

JADS · 31/10/2023 20:02

My DS who has ASD is like this. He is always talking, it's exhausting. He does it more when he is anxious. He likes school too even if he finds it overwhelming at times. Fortunately he sleeps through, but sleep disturbance is a sign of ASD.

Do you have money for a babysitter? If you could find a TA or someone who works at a special needs school who will take him put on a Saturday for you that might be good.

TutuDesi · 31/10/2023 20:03

It actually sounds pretty normal to me. Kids are 24/7 for the first ten years. It is an exhausting endurance race to be sure as they have way more energy than you do. He’s in school 30hrs a week.

I think the issue is you don’t have a baby sitter so you and DH can go out as a couple. You also need to take turns having him solo, so the other can get some alone time or time to go out with mates.

Original poster
Blueberrybutterfly · 31/10/2023 20:03

He has issues with control and changes/unexpected things.
He gets hyper focused on things, particularly numbers. He will count to self regulate at times. He may not be ND, but myself and my DH show traits of autism/adhd, I’m currently awaiting for adhd assessment (been waiting a while).

OP posts:
Original poster
Blueberrybutterfly · 31/10/2023 20:04

For example he hated dressing up for Halloween at school the other day because all his friends weren’t looking like themselves (makeup on, masks, wigs etc) and he was so relieved when they were back in uniform the next day.

OP posts:
unlikelychump · 31/10/2023 20:09

I'm sorry to hear it is hard op. In my experience my 8 yo is now playing by himself in his room a lot. This has positive sides and negatives too. It has got easier. I also find audiobooks are good for his restless mind, as long as I am cool with listening to Harry Potter every waking moment ..

On the marriage front I can't help as we are teetering on the brink too

itsgettingweird · 31/10/2023 20:14

If he's ND I'd have a look at using strategies now to support him.

Things like a gro clock. If he wakes up he can watch iPad or something if he can't sleep but mum and dad aren't getting up until the sun does. (Get him headphones for it!)

Use visual timetables. Reinforce what's happening each day as lowering his anxiety may help him with the need to talk all day.

Use the same techniques with toilet as are used for sleep training. So start by standing by the door. So he knows you're there but you aren't going in. Then walk him to the door and step back when he's going. Use lots of positive praise afterwards about how well he's done. Be specific. For example "well done for using the toilet and remember inf to wash you hands"

Also get lots of soft play type equipment and try a tent he can use alone for self regulation. Does he like lights? Lots of number puzzles or maths books he can do alone and earn rewards for completing tasks alone.

PurpleSneakers · 31/10/2023 20:17

@Almostateeagersmum2023
Yet the fact that he shows no problem at school suggests no sensory issues with this particular situation

JumpinJellyfish · 31/10/2023 20:23

He doesn’t sound really any different to my 5yo DS and his friends, none of whom
are ND.

My DS also talks non stop and has only got better about entertaining himself in the last year or so. DC2 who is 3 has always been good at it and I actually think he has learned more independent play skills from her, plus they also play together a lot now. It must be harder if he is an only child and I suspect my DS would be similar if we didn’t have DD too.

The bedtimes/wake up time sounds completely age appropriate. The couple of kids we know who have ASD sleep like 2-3 hrs a night maximum, whereas what you describe is pretty much what my kids do.

Wanting you to go to the toilet with him and being discombobulated by his friends in costumes sound like my 3yo - I guess maybe at 5 you’d expect him to be growing out of it but perhaps he’s just sensitive.

If you think you might be ND yourself then perhaps you are more sensitive/less tolerant of normal child behaviour? Honestly to me he sounds like a normal kid but you just sound exhausted.

Almostateeagersmum2023 · 31/10/2023 20:23

PurpleSneakers · 31/10/2023 20:17

@Almostateeagersmum2023
Yet the fact that he shows no problem at school suggests no sensory issues with this particular situation

I don’t think OP was referring to the toilet - but just going to school generally.

TutuDesi · 31/10/2023 20:27

His behaviour is totally age appropriate. If this behaviour were that of an 8yo, then maybe ND. But not for a 5yo imho.

Catsfrontbum · 31/10/2023 20:27

Sounds like he is “masking” a lot at school and so when he comes home he is like Velcro in you and your dh and wanting to be in total control of you both.

when he comes home from school is he hyped up? If he is you can help with that transition by creating little safe spaces, cosy nests, fidget roy, iPad, snack bowl, soft clothes. Have this ready straight away. Anything that will help him self regulate again and help him reset.

rewards probably won’t work so for now…what about putting his bed in with you guys? Every one sleeps?

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to wake at 7am with him, you and your dh should just take that in turn?

ask school for a detailed assessment?

Phineyj · 31/10/2023 20:29

I have a child like this.

Yes this behaviour is within norms at 5 but we still have quite a few of these behaviours at 10 (child was diagnosed with ADHD and ASD at 7).

A lot of behaviour of this kind is down to anxiety. A book I found useful is Jeffrey Bernstein's 10 Days to a Less Defiant Child.

Get support for yourselves: regular, trusted babysitter so you can have some adult time.

We found NVR very useful - Yvonne Newbold on Facebook is good.

Original poster
Blueberrybutterfly · 31/10/2023 20:30

It probably doesn’t help that myself and partner struggle with traits of ND ourselves. I get very over stimulated and overwhelmed easily. Not having my family nearby doesn’t help either.

I know it’s awful to say this, but had I known having a child was so hard, I may not have had one.

Another thing I didn’t mention is that at bedtime we take it in turns to lay with him until he falls asleep, so lose almost half our evening with each other there too. On bad days, he takes over an hour to fall asleep.

OP posts:
CalistoNoSolo · 31/10/2023 20:32

He sounds normal to me, and waking up at 6am pretty standard. As a parent your downtime is when your child is asleep. Your parents and inlaws are not obliged to provide childcare and you sound resentful that they won't. I think you need to adjust your expectations of parenting a young child tbh. It's relentless but it's also incredibly rewarding. Your son sounds delightful tbh.

Wasywasydoodah · 31/10/2023 20:33

Sounds like all of my neurotypical 5 year olds…

TutuDesi · 31/10/2023 20:34

Another thing I didn’t mention is that at bedtime we take it in turns to lay with him until he falls asleep, so lose almost half our evening with each other there too. On bad days, he takes over an hour to fall asleep.

Half an hour is really quick! You’re doing so well. Mine would drag it out 2-3hrs every night. But then mine are ND.

PermanentTemporary · 31/10/2023 20:36

Sorry to be blunt but do you have any money?

I would start with the sleep. You both sound so ground down by the exhaustion abd lack of space that you are pulling apart and not able to make a plan to improve things. I'm not sure what professional would be right for this situation, but maybe talk to a sleep consultant even though they normally work with younger ones. Or people on here might know.

If you can reach a point where you can both predict some sleep and time to yourselves in the evening, you can tackle other things.

In the very short term, take the lightbulbs out of your bedroom lights when you go to bed.

Original poster
Blueberrybutterfly · 31/10/2023 20:37

He’s very funny, witty, intelligent and fun to be around, and we love him so much, but I/we’re also extremely drained. And I feel like we’re trying to pour from an empty cup.

I know my parents and in laws aren’t obliged to provide childcare, but I hear from so many other friends with kids and how they go on weekends away, nights out etc etc and family will have their children for them. I just sometimes feel a bit of jealousy I guess.

OP posts:
Catsfrontbum · 31/10/2023 20:37

I think you all need to reevaluate what’s “typical” for you all and make some adjustments.