On the verge of a breakdown (possible ND 5 year old)

[Blueberrybutterfly]

Our 5 year old is extremely hard work. I think he is ND, but not diagnosed yet as he’s very articulate, academic and sociable.
But I’m so bloody exhausted.
He doesn’t stop talking from morning until night. He wakes up at 6am everyday, sometimes earlier, he goes to bed at 7:30/8 but whatever time he goes to bed it doesn’t matter. As soon as he’s awake, he wants us to be up too. One of the things he’ll do is turn on the light in our bedroom while we are still asleep.

He also comes into our bed most nights, from around 2am-4am onwards. And one of us goes into his bed, as space is an issue.

He needs constant attention during the day, he won’t just sit and entertain himself for any of the time.
He also wants us to go to the toilet with him whenever he needs to go, it’s like he doesn’t want to do anything on his own…but he never cries or gets distressed about going to school, in fact he looks forward to it.

We have very little in the way of support. My parents live 3 hours drive away and even when we do see them, they don’t really look after him so we can have a break.

My in laws are in their 70s but good health, they live about 20 mins away, but also don’t give us much support. Whenever they see him, we go round there too. They may occasionally look after him for an hour or pick him up from school, again only got around 20 mins until I come to get him.

Mine and DH’s relationship is at breaking point…we only have him as our one child, but it feels like several. We never get any down time.

I really have no idea what to do: he’s currently testing the boundaries with us more than usual and it’s debilitating.

I think your first post he sounded NT.
Maybe some traits in later posts but likewise could be completely normal.

Sleep amount seems fine. Its true the asd kids i know sleep a lot less or are affected by occasions.
It maybe he isnt tired. Some kids dont need a lot of sleep. Dd2 never slept a lot 10-8.

How are his friendships?

A lot of kids dont like dressing up etc. Or people dressed up. But how does he react? Mine hid from characters.
Asd kids are often picky eaters.

He is a picky eater. He will also never smile for photos…not sure if that’s an ND thing or a normal kid thing?

In my house it is a ND thing. I think there is no harm in learning strategies that might work if they don't no harm done, if they do then great. How is he with rules? Ie the rule is you cannot do xx until y? Just to help frame the day.

Have you employed any strategies to get him out of these behaviours? Have you tried a reward system or consequences for the behaviours you aren’t a fan of like coming into your room in the middle of the night?

My dc 5 would have done all these things but no way I’d have gone downstairs too early in the morning. It was a choice of back to bed or watching telly in my bed while I got a bit more rest. I used a reward chart to help cut out the bedtime antics but sometimes kids that age need you to stay until they sleep and they need help in the toilet. Also, incessant chatting is totally normal!

Another thing I didn’t mention is that at bedtime we take it in turns to lay with him until he falls asleep, so lose almost half our evening with each other there too. On bad days, he takes over an hour to fall asleep.

The average amount of sleep for a five year old is 10-13hrs, with as little as 8-9hrs still being reasonably common, so whatever you friends say (and do remember that a lot of people feel pressure to fib about their children's sleep!) your child is actually sleeping a typical amount.

Plenty of children sneak into their parents' bed in the night, a lot of adults don't like to sleep alone so I don't see why we expect children to like it! We sit with our five year old as he falls asleep and listen to children's meditations together (on the Moshi sleep app), it takes about half an hour usually but sometimes longer. He sleeps 9pm-6:30am which is within the average zone of 9-11hrs for his age group. The idea the most/all/lots of children sleep 7-7 in their own beds having been tucked in for the night and left alone to fall asleep is a myth really.

I suspect the issue is more the lack of support and alone time that you have and your (understandable) extra difficulties in coping with that rather than your child's behaviour itself, which does sound quite typical to me. Five year olds can be really intense and annoying! Our toddler isn't going to sleep until around 9-9:30pm at the moment (still napping) and then we're up at 6am but we still squeeze in an hour or so together once the kids are in bed. What are you doing from, say, 8-10pm, are you just spent?

Our parents are also not local but will take the kids when we do see them. Can you find a local babysitter? Do you each take the child out one on one on the weekend so that the other has some time alone? I'm really sorry you're struggling, I'd maybe look into ways to help you each cope with this intense phase of life though rather than focusing on your child's behaviour if that makes sense. That will help whether it turns out there are NT factors at play or not.

@Almostateeagersmum2023
But you were quoting me and I was

My parents , particularly my mother are of the opinion, you had a child, you are responsible, no matter how you are feeling.
I’m a mother and I’ve got to step up to the plate - these are the kind of things I’m told regularly.
One thing my parents say a lot is “at least he’s not physically disabled or if he has severe learning difficulties, imagine how much harder it would be then”

My In laws are similar and if I say I’m struggling at all, they play it down and keep saying “it’ll get easier, it’s not forever” and so on.

He sounds like most average 5 year olds! Lots of children hate Halloween, they hate dressing up and seeing people they know dressed up. That’s not a sign that they are autistic.
Regarding bedtimes - all normal. What kid doesn’t like sneaking into their parent’s bed? Mumsnet is full of threads from parents asking how to deal with this.
‘What you have is a regular 5 year old doing regular 5 year old things. It’s interesting that you think both yourself and your DP may be ND. Perhaps that’s the actual issue.

They are right to a certain degree.

I have a child with complex needs and it is hard. Sorry but your mother is right you do need to step up. My parents and my DP's parents were both dead when our children arrived and like a lot of other people just had to cope. It is hard but please don't blame the grandparents for not helping/not understanding.

It’s interesting that you think the opposite to a ‘ND” child is a ‘normal kid’.

They may say all these things and mean it but you can still ask them for help. Yes they will punish you but you might get the help as well.

@Soontobe60
I used the wrong terminology, I apologise. I meant a neurotypical child, opposed to ‘normal kid’. I’m still learning about all the terminology.

Maybe it’s because I see / hear a lot of my friends saying how much time they get to themselves while they’re able to go out and about and do other things.

I went on holiday with a family whose child behaved like yours, the parents were just too exhausted to parent in a way that would help them longer term. It's a vicious cycle and you have my sympathy.

The things you mention sound normal for a 5yo. My ASD DD didn't like when her friends changed their appearance but couldn't articulate it right away, she'd just hide behind a tree from them.

You just talk about his likes and dislikes with the assumption he should get all his likes at your expense. Start with putting him back to his own bed in the middle of the night, cut down the lying next to him by saying you'll be back in 5 minutes and he can keep the bed warm, then just extend it. If you take done control, both you and DS will be relieved.

Good luck

It doesnt really matter if he is ND or not. The issue is you are struggling. The main things are getting yourself more sleep and occupying your child a bit on the day so you can rest up.

You could speak to the gp or school nurse about sleep. If you explain how difficult it is they might prescribe a week of melatonin to give you a break. I say might as most wont do this, but I have had it when my dh burst into tears in the GP and said the lack of sleep meant he woukd lose his job. After a week of sleep you might feel able to tackle some of the issues.

I would also look at whether there was a saturday morning club or after school club that used your sons energy and brain a bit. One where you sit in another room and have coffee and read a book whikst its happening. Swimming lessons, ballet, gymnastics. That sort of thing - obviously some are more expensive than others so you might have to search about. Football seems to involve standing in the cold and wet!

I had a son like yours with sleep, talking and attention and he did actually just grow out of it. And as he got older he could do things like go downstairs and watch tv alone, without waking me. He required so much input but the plus of thst was he was so enthusiastic about everything and does homework, cleaning etc as a teen as he cant do nothing. My other child has asd and wasnt really like this.

He sounds like a handful, though. Even if your family were right next door.

Can you not find a sitter or a professional nanny? Someone who could take him out on Saturday to give you a break?

The pps are right; you have to get your sleep under control. I'd be disciplining him for waking you up. And weaning off lying with him at night. School age children shouldn't need that as part of bedtime routine.

This sounds very much like my daughter, also an only child, who was diagnosed with ASD aged 6. However, she also has very definite sensory issues around clothing and food, and can have violent meltdowns (much rarer now that we have some better strategies for helping her regulate).

A year after diagnosis, we still have to sit in her room for her to fall asleep, but she now has melatonin so this is now a much quicker process. She has slept in her own bed for the past year too - this was initially enforced when her leg was in plaster and she couldn’t practically get into our bed, but we managed to keep the momentum and she hasn’t come back to our bed since. She also demands a lot of attention and struggles to do toy play on her own, but will now spend more time in the garden or in her room alone. So things have slowly got better for us, at least.

My ND daughter was like this. I also felt at braking point. Here are some suggestions that helped us.

Get a babysitter regularly. Like every other week or something and spend time with your DH without your child.

Have designated time where one parent takes your child so the other gets some down time. Also both of you look at getting a hobby, maybe something exercised based for atleast one evening a week.

Download the Kindle app on your phone and then when you are stuff laying with him after 10 mins of cuddles tell him you are going to read your book now and you can lay and read a book on your phone. This was a game changer for me tbh as I started to enjoy my time laying there for hours instead of getting fed up.

Your friends just sound incredibly atypical - why is that? Any ideas what is unusual about them? Nannies? Parents childminding? After school clubs? what on earth are they doing with their child while they are out and about doing other things?

or is this the screen generation and they just stick them in front of their phones?

that's not actually very good for 5-year-olds

@PosterBoy

They seem to have a lot of support from family and other caregivers.

comparison is the theft of joy

it's a bit shit that you haven't got any support, so maybe you need to look at how you can replicate that. buy in a babysitter once a week and go out. find someone else who doesn't have much family support and do swaps on babysitting. I've spent half my life sat at the side of the pool, the football pitch, in the hour you get when beavers is on, and then we would alternate a couple of times a week and go to the gym. my gym now also runs clubs for kids.

your child might well have neurodiverse traits, mine probably do as well, but what you've described so far just sounds like a typical only child five-year-old who is on the low end of needing sleep. it does get easier as they get older and can be more independent. we used a lot of audio books at night time at that age. decide what is most important to you for example a couple of hours to yourselves at night and then stick to it

Have you had a chat with the school have they noticed any signs? I’m in the same boat with my almost five year old suspecting asd , I often think surely it shouldn’t be this hard with just one child to care for.