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AIBU?

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Original poster

Friends surrogacy

483 replies

Fatcat00 · 30/10/2023 08:01

Not a particularly close friend, but friend enough for me to be invited to social events etc. has recently told me she is having a baby due in April, I was shocked and congratulated her, she then says “surrogate… obviously”. I was a bit lost for words.

for context friend has recently divorced, they had been trying for a baby for 5 years, had IVF etc. I furthered the conversation and asked if it was her egg. Her response was “nah, I’m not bothered if it’s not my biological baby.. I just want a baby”. Followed by “I can’t be assed putting hormones into my body for the sake of my own egg”. I am just so shocked and speechless, I don’t agree with surrogacy for a number of reasons. Some of them being I don’t agree with the hiring of a woman’s body. I don’t agree with a baby being ripped away from its mother to suit someone else’s needs and the physical and psychological implications to both baby and mother as such. Why not just adopt?? If you don’t care for the child to be your biological anyway, why not adopt a baby who needs a parent?

it’s kind of made me look at her in a different light. She seemed very flippant about it (I’m aware this is just how she has came across I’m sure it’s a lengthy and draining process). She says she was put in touch with this woman through a friend who had used her.

essentially, this surrogate has just got pregnant for the purpose of handing over the baby to someone else in exchange for cash. I think I’d still be a bit 🤔 even if it was her own egg if truth be told.

I just can’t get my head around it. Am I being a bit of a bigot? Aibu to want to distance myself a bit? I don’t like feeling as though someone’s path to parenthood or happiness is “wrong” but it really doesn’t sit right with me and I’m not entirely sure why.

OP posts:
Blueggsandham · 30/10/2023 09:51

I'm amazed that so many people are saying it's none of your business- it's all our business, someone is buying a baby, and it's from another country, it's literally human trafficking, this is not a victimless crime.

I know that adoption is no easy etc etc but think of the hoops potential adoptive parents are put through to ensure they're suitable. None of that applies if someone can afford to, and in this case seems willing to break the law, to purchase a baby.

TheOccupier · 30/10/2023 09:51

AlltheFs · 30/10/2023 09:02

She’d be no friend of mine any longer. Surrogacy is abhorrent.

I wouldn’t tell her why but I’d block her and move on.

I would do the same - surrogacy disgusts me. Babies aren't consumer goods and nobody has a right to have one. You're not supposed to take puppies away from their mother until they're at least 8 weeks old but somehow with human babies it's absolutely fine? Appalling. More and more countries seem to be banning it now, and I hope the UK will follow.

Uggquestion · 30/10/2023 09:54

Fatcat00 · 30/10/2023 09:45

I am fully aware that adoption isn’t a simple process, and that newborns are rare. But my stance still remains that if you’re desperate to be a parent, then adopt a child. Her words were “just want a baby”. Children don’t stay babies for long. Which gives me the impression it’s the gushy experience of a newborn which is the priority here rather than the child’s welfare.

You're right - people have babies because they want to be parents and experience it all, starting from babyhood. Everyone is like that. It's not an altruistic act. There's nothing disingenuous about saying you want what everyone else wants also. If it was all about the children's welfare we would not have so many children in care because people would choose to adopt over parenting.

But it's also the case that we are programmed to think we bond with babies and many don't have the opportunity to discover those parental feelings can be triggered by an older child.

Not everyone who can parent should adopt because it's much harder and the person who suffers is the child if the right feelings and attitude aren't there. Don't push people who aren't right for it into adoption - it's much harder than parenting your biological child, or a child you've had from a newborn.

TeaKitten · 30/10/2023 09:54

Blueggsandham · 30/10/2023 09:51

I'm amazed that so many people are saying it's none of your business- it's all our business, someone is buying a baby, and it's from another country, it's literally human trafficking, this is not a victimless crime.

I know that adoption is no easy etc etc but think of the hoops potential adoptive parents are put through to ensure they're suitable. None of that applies if someone can afford to, and in this case seems willing to break the law, to purchase a baby.

I can see where OP has mentioned the baby’s heritage but I can’t see where she’s said she’s buying the baby from a different country?

Stupidnighty · 30/10/2023 09:56

Tandora · 30/10/2023 09:25

Just because it’s not OP’s friend’s egg, doesn’t mean it’s the surrogate’s egg either. People are so ignorant honestly 🙄

Show quote history

She can not apply for a parental order as she is in no way related to the child;

Apply as an individual
**
you must be genetically related to the child - in other words, be the egg or sperm donor.
You must also:

  • have the child living with you
  • reside permanently in either the UK, Channel Islands or Isle of Man
You can apply for a child of any age if you apply before 4 July 2019. From 4 July 2019 you must apply within 6 months of the child’s birth

So she will have to go through the process of adoption, in which she may or may not be successful.

BrieEncounter · 30/10/2023 09:56

More holes than a pack of Swiss cheese...

Garnered a lot of posts though OP

3456G · 30/10/2023 09:58

In the UK surrogates are not allowed to profit a penny, they are paid reasonable expenses and the court has to have receipts of everything- it is entirely illegal to profit from it. It is completely altruistic. That is not the case abroad though. Just FYI

Ace56 · 30/10/2023 09:58

Stupidnighty · 30/10/2023 09:46

She isn’t becoming a parent, she is planning to take part in the sale of a human life. That doesn’t make her a mother.

Show quote history

This is offensive. Adoptive parents are still parents. You’re still a mother even if you’re not biologically related to the child! OP’s friend will be a mother, just maybe not by means that you agree with.

Stupidnighty · 30/10/2023 09:58

TeaKitten · 30/10/2023 09:48

Well it does because she will then raise the child and legally be its mother.

Show quote history

If she applied for, and is granted its adoption. You can’t just take babies from their mothers and say they are yours now, that isn’t how it works.

Tandora · 30/10/2023 09:59

Stupidnighty · 30/10/2023 09:56

She can not apply for a parental order as she is in no way related to the child;

Apply as an individual
**
you must be genetically related to the child - in other words, be the egg or sperm donor.
You must also:

  • have the child living with you
  • reside permanently in either the UK, Channel Islands or Isle of Man
You can apply for a child of any age if you apply before 4 July 2019. From 4 July 2019 you must apply within 6 months of the child’s birth

So she will have to go through the process of adoption, in which she may or may not be successful.

Show quote history

This is in no way related to my post , but thank you for the information.
Presumably OP’s friend has a clear sense of her route to legal parenthood.

TeaKitten · 30/10/2023 10:01

Stupidnighty · 30/10/2023 09:58

If she applied for, and is granted its adoption. You can’t just take babies from their mothers and say they are yours now, that isn’t how it works.

Show quote history

She’s obviously going to apply…

TheKeatingFive · 30/10/2023 10:02

In the UK surrogates are not allowed to profit a penny, they are paid reasonable expenses and the court has to have receipts of everything- it is entirely illegal to profit from it. It is completely altruistic

Who decides what are 'reasonable' expenses though?

Aquestioningmind · 30/10/2023 10:06

The fact people are saying adoption is so much better baffles me.

I know three people who were adopted; none of them speak to their adopted families anymore. Three different people from three different families. They weren’t told the truth until they were adults (between 16-21) and realised they’d been lied to their whole lives and couldn’t forgive the deceit. How is that better than a surrogate?

On the other hand, I know someone who has used a surrogate. Surrogate was more than happy with the arrangement as it gave her money to support her own children and give them a better life. Should she have to do it? No. But did she, as a ADULT, make a decision? Yes. Not all surrogates are taken advantage of.

Ultimately if people want to use surrogates that’s their choice, you may not agree with it but don’t act like adoption is some shining beacon.

The world isn’t black and white and people need to remember that.

GlitchStitch · 30/10/2023 10:08

In the UK at least one of the intended parents needs to be genetically the parent of the baby. If this is true your friend will face legal issues, it certainly won't be as simple as handing the baby over.

Stupidnighty · 30/10/2023 10:10

Ace56 · 30/10/2023 09:58

This is offensive. Adoptive parents are still parents. You’re still a mother even if you’re not biologically related to the child! OP’s friend will be a mother, just maybe not by means that you agree with.

Show quote history

Of course adoptive parents are entirely parents- the act of adoption gives them parental rights, and the relationship they build gives them the emotional and social and psychological position of parents.

Equally, someone can be a legally and morally a parent without being genetically related to the child- for example the non birth mother in a lesbian couple can be named on a child’s birth certificate if certain criteria are met.

Many step parents bring up children as their own-

the difference is that they don’t think they can hire a woman’s uterus as if it’s a factory and as long as they pay the fee they will own the product created within- a human life.

the op’s friends position isn’t as simple- she may become a mother if she is allowed to adopt the baby- as it stands that is in no way guaranteed, surrogacy agreements do not stand up in court. Ethically the stance of ‘I paid for it so it’s mine’ is wrong, and legally it’s wrong. Otherwise potential adoptive parents would be giving adoption boards back handers and everyone would think that was fine.

Hermittrismegistus · 30/10/2023 10:10

Surrogate was more than happy with the arrangement as it gave her money to support her own children and give them a better life. Should she have to do it? No. But did she, as a ADULT, make a decision? Yes. Not all surrogates are taken advantage of

"It gave her money to support her own children" - How is that not taking advantage of someone?

Hermittrismegistus · 30/10/2023 10:12

And I thought any money exchanged during a surrogacy was simply expenses? How can a woman support her other child if all she is receiving is expenses?

Sofaz34 · 30/10/2023 10:12

Noone who can conceive naturally and has done so can judge a woman who can't conceive naturally choices. If she could conceive naturally that would make her a better person in your eyes? How ridiculous and privileged are you. Maybe karma will deny you your own family or grandchildren and you might have a change of heart.

Stupidnighty · 30/10/2023 10:13

TeaKitten · 30/10/2023 10:01

She’s obviously going to apply…

Show quote history

But not necessarily be granted- and arguing that she paid for the child will not do her any favours.

There have been high profile cases of this in the uk- the children ended up in the care system because the selling mother and the buying ‘customer’ were both found to be unfit parents.

VWdieselnightmare · 30/10/2023 10:15

I agree with you, OP. Surrogacy — buying a baby — is a massive issue. Your 'friend' sounds as if she's involved in something that's possibly very dodgy.

Babies aren't puppies.

TeaKitten · 30/10/2023 10:15

Stupidnighty · 30/10/2023 10:13

But not necessarily be granted- and arguing that she paid for the child will not do her any favours.

There have been high profile cases of this in the uk- the children ended up in the care system because the selling mother and the buying ‘customer’ were both found to be unfit parents.

Show quote history

Be as obtuse as you like, in the likely event she is successful, then regardless of how the baby came to be, she will be its mother.

Stupidnighty · 30/10/2023 10:17

Tandora · 30/10/2023 09:59

This is in no way related to my post , but thank you for the information.
Presumably OP’s friend has a clear sense of her route to legal parenthood.

Show quote history

It’s related because you posted implying whether it’s her egg or not made no difference, and said I was ignorant for pointing out that legally it very much makes a difference.

Aquestioningmind · 30/10/2023 10:17

Hermittrismegistus · 30/10/2023 10:10

Surrogate was more than happy with the arrangement as it gave her money to support her own children and give them a better life. Should she have to do it? No. But did she, as a ADULT, make a decision? Yes. Not all surrogates are taken advantage of

"It gave her money to support her own children" - How is that not taking advantage of someone?

But it’s not.

These women are adults and painting them all as victims is just trying to play the ‘saviour’ and tell them how to live their lives. You (and people in general) don’t know why each individual does it - every case is unique. Widespread sweeping statements painting them all as victims are unhelpful and very ‘god complexy’ - particularly if you’ve never met a surrogate. Which I bet most people on mumsnet haven’t.

forgotmyusername1 · 30/10/2023 10:18

someone I know has been trying to adopt with her husband for 3 years

they got turned down as they said they wanted to adopt a child of 5 years-10 years old and the panel said they couldn't understand their motivation as they are a couple who haven't tried to have their own child and aren't looking to adopt due to infertility.

they are now signed off for fostering instead as they couldn't get the go ahead for adoption and hope to then adopt via fostering.

This is a couple in their late 20's early 30's who own a house, both work in decent jobs and have savings and actively want to adopt a non baby - you would have thought their hand would have been bitten off.

It really isn't easy to adopt.

TheKeatingFive · 30/10/2023 10:18

Surrogate was more than happy with the arrangement as it gave her money to support her own children and give them a better life.

I always wonder, in cases like this, what contingencies are put in place to cover for the possibility of the surrogate dying or being rendered disabled as a result of the pregnancy/childbirth?

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