Friends surrogacy

[Fatcat00]

Not a particularly close friend, but friend enough for me to be invited to social events etc. has recently told me she is having a baby due in April, I was shocked and congratulated her, she then says “surrogate… obviously”. I was a bit lost for words.

for context friend has recently divorced, they had been trying for a baby for 5 years, had IVF etc. I furthered the conversation and asked if it was her egg. Her response was “nah, I’m not bothered if it’s not my biological baby.. I just want a baby”. Followed by “I can’t be assed putting hormones into my body for the sake of my own egg”. I am just so shocked and speechless, I don’t agree with surrogacy for a number of reasons. Some of them being I don’t agree with the hiring of a woman’s body. I don’t agree with a baby being ripped away from its mother to suit someone else’s needs and the physical and psychological implications to both baby and mother as such. Why not just adopt?? If you don’t care for the child to be your biological anyway, why not adopt a baby who needs a parent?

it’s kind of made me look at her in a different light. She seemed very flippant about it (I’m aware this is just how she has came across I’m sure it’s a lengthy and draining process). She says she was put in touch with this woman through a friend who had used her.

essentially, this surrogate has just got pregnant for the purpose of handing over the baby to someone else in exchange for cash. I think I’d still be a bit 🤔 even if it was her own egg if truth be told.

I just can’t get my head around it. Am I being a bit of a bigot? Aibu to want to distance myself a bit? I don’t like feeling as though someone’s path to parenthood or happiness is “wrong” but it really doesn’t sit right with me and I’m not entirely sure why.

This (white🙄) woman consented. She consented to the pregnancy. She consented to giving birth. She consented to giving away her baby to two men.

But she didn’t consent to being filmed in labour. She didn’t consent to being made fun of for not waxing. She didn’t consent to those two things being shown on TV long after she had given up the baby.

So if people think women can consent, and it’s a “saviour complex” to want to prevent misogynistic shit like this happening to women, what legal framework do you propose to make sure there is true consent and women aren’t going to be exploited?

https://twitter.com/xxclusionary/status/1716144284682846485

Surrogacy is incredibly wrong from an ethical point of view. Heartbreaking to think of the damage to a baby being taken from its mother, even if the surrogate isn’t using her own egg, she’s still the mother from a physiological point of view and the critically important mother-baby dyad. I really hope more people wake up to this. Egg donation, IVF, adoption.. there are other options. It’s just so selfish.

This.

She is the mother from a legal point of view too.

Exactly my thoughts. Her flippant remarks about not wanting hormones in her body are probably a defense mechanism after years of putting her body through a lot of hormone treatment for IVF.

The two women I have met who were surrogates were both very autistic and the multiple surrogates I’ve seen on YT/Instagram are also autistic. There’s definitely a link and these women are being terribly taken advantage of.

Why would they be damaged? I question the ethics of it but not sure how it would lead to damaged children?

If you resort to saying having ethical concerns about surrogacy is the same as being anti abortion protestor, clearly you have no valid points to make.
In the UK, an unborn foetus does not have legal rights. A baby that has been born is immediately afforded the same legal rights as every other human. The surrogate is giving away an actual being who has human rights. The woman having an abortion is not. Legally, it’s incomparable.

Hmm, not quite what I said and definitely not ‘crazy’ to point out that’s it’s so often privileged women who have this outrage on behalf of women who aren’t so privileged for whatever reason- who are often perfectly capable of deciding how to live their life and perfectly capable of understanding the world and its injustices.

But ‘crazy’ is just another (ill-mannered) way to try to dismiss or silence people with different views.

I agree with this, I doubt she was truly flippant. She was probably half traumatised from failed fertility and mentally exhausted. Also, I can imagine every time she tells someone she is expecting via surrogate she has to have the same conversation over and over and is just sick of it.

OP I remember a friend did something that I did not agree with, and I was upset and taken aback and found it tricky for a while. I realised it was my principles are different and it wasn't for me to judge but I admit it took a while to move on from it. I think its the same here, its none of your business and you will hopefully realise that in time.

There’s an irony somewhere……..

I wonder many BAME and/or under privileged women utilise surrogates.

Very few people support surrogacy, for many very good reasons.

Babies are not to be bought or sold. Neither are women's bodies.

YANBU, OP.

A newborn baby's first and most over riding instinct is to reach for its mother.

Taking a baby from his or her mother at birth creates trauma. This is well known and considered in adoption.

I acknowledged this in a previous post. It doesn’t change the fact that I am a little uncomfortable about saying how these women should feel, though. I’m certainly no pro-surrogacy but I do I believe it’ll happen regardless of whether it’s legal or not and the exploitation will be tenfold (understatement of the century) if it’s not.

My friends surrogate was a middle class financially stable white woman with her own business in the U.K. who just liked being pregnant but didn’t want more children and missed being pregnant and liked the connection she had with helping people that couldn’t have a family and the ongoing friendships. She got expenses and money to cover a few months off work, but it would have been easier on her family and children not to do it but she likes doing it and the feeling it gives her. Sorry that goes against your narrative

I do I believe it’ll happen regardless of whether it’s legal or not and the exploitation will be tenfold (understatement of the century) if it’s not.

I don't agree with this conclusion actually. Legal frameworks can be created to make it the process unattractive for potential surrogates - no payment, no 'expenses', no mechanism to confer parenthood to other parties.

It's a very different situation to abortion, for example, which doesn't require any agreement or legal interaction with another party.

She got expenses and money to cover a few months off work, but it would have been easier on her family and children not to do it but she likes doing it and the feeling it gives her.

I wonder what provision was planned for if she had died or been rendered disabled by the process?

The surrogate is so desperate to be pregnant that she is happy to sell her babies (for a few months off work) and does so to the detriment of her existing family?

And you can’t see that there might be some ethical concerns there?

it would have been easier on her family and children not to do it but she likes doing it and the feeling it gives her

Good point. I hadn't really considered the impact on a surrogate mother's existing family and children.

A will is made and life insurance taken out, paid for by the intended parents.

A will is made and life insurance taken out, paid for by the intended parents.

I wonder what percentage of surrogacy cases involves this?

Won't the new mother have to adopt the surrogate baby anyway if they have no biological connection? AFAIK no woman can just legally give her baby to someone else to register as their own? Surely that's not a thing??

Well my gran smoked 40 a day for 70 years and lived to be well over 90, died peacefully of a major heart attack. Anecdote does not equal data.

Statistically, surrogates are not higher income privileged women. Of course some are. Of course some are altruistic kind humans who want to see a childless person/couple become parents. Of course some would decline everything but the most basic of expenses because they don’t need the money.

This sounds sensible and practical but there is no financial reward and no amount of money to
mitigate the pain of disability nor the pain of pas to the surrogate’s family/friends.

No it isn’t a thing, yes you are right that the woman will have to try to adopt the baby- don’t mention that on this thread though- a lot of posters don’t want to hear actual facts!

OP, your ‘Nice try though/Do keep up/Calm down Hun x’ cliche-sass sum you up really. You aren’t looking for friends and you aren’t looking for alternative opinions.

Obviously, the best thing to do is just get over it and accept that people make different decisions to you within the law. The baby’s on the way. You just say ‘Congrats’ and move on.