To think these are correct table manners or am I just a snob??

[Justintime3]

I was raised with strict table manners, yet I have never been sat at a table with anyone who has the same table manners I do! Are these over the top?

This is what I was taught

1. Do not eat until the person who cooked sits down (excused if the chef says you can start)
2. Do not eat until everyone has their food in a restaurant (excused if the person without their food says you can start)
3. Chew with your mouth closed and do not speak with your mouth full
4. Do not take calls or use your phone at the table. Excuse yourself if you need to
5. Put your knife and fork together at the front of your plate when you are finished
6. Offer the last serving of XYZ to the table before you take it
7. Thank the person who cooked and offer to clean up
8. Elbows off the table
9. Tear bread into small chunks to eat in a restaurant, don't bite off the whole roll

10. Use cutlery correctly

• index finger on top of your knife and fork
• spoons for soup and dessert only. Spoon the soup from the farthest side of the bowl
• load food onto the back of the fork with your knife. (No 'shovelling' as my mum called it)

My mum's always been really strict on it and is the type to point out people's bad table manners so I've always followed these to a T. Thoughts? Is this over the top and I'm a snob, or are these just normal to expect?

Because of how I've been raised I can't help but be put off when I see someone without these manners.

Just keen to see how others were raised!

If everybody starts at the same time, you run less risk of someone finishing way before or after everyone else. Of course, some are slower or faster eaters, but if everyone starts at the same time, there's a better chance of nobody being left feeling awkward when everyone else is ready for dessert. There is an etiquette rule that says you should pace your eating to the people round you, for the reasons you say. I find it really hard, being a gobbler by nature. I keep an eye on everyone else, and it's such a relief to find that someone else has broken the rule and already finished, gives me permission to go back to my normal eating speed.

Spooning away from you also seems a bit pointless, although not really a faff. It's something to do with tipping the bowl away from you when you get the last few spoonfuls so if the ship rolls you don't land it in your lap.

We had a great aunt who committed the cardinal sin of using the serving spoon to cut off all the heads of the asparagus and put them on her plate. She was never served asparagus again. Broccoli would be a similar vegetable. But on serving, I imaging we were all taught never to pick something up and put it back again, pick the cake or biscuit that was nearest, not reach over to the other side of the plate, and not to let anyone notice you'd grabbed the biggest piece of cake.

Preparing the next mouthful while you're eating the current one can, if you're a fast eater like me, give the impression you're racing ahead to have first go at the seconds. I find it useful to put down cutlery to deliberately slow myself down so I don't finish way ahead of everyone else. There's also evidence that it's easier to limit your appetite and lose weight if you eat more slowly.

I really don't mind gobblers, I'm a bit on the slow side myself but every 'gobbler' I've ever eaten with, eats quietly with their mouth closed... just at a cracking pace!

For me it's all about keeping the food in your mouth, nary to be seen or heard again by anybody. Everything else is ok.

As for bad habits, I discovered years ago that my under-forearms would make a 'fascinating' grating sound if I moved them back and forth on the table horizontally. A habit that was dinned out of me when I saw the horrified faces of the people I was dining with. I still do it if I'm eating by myself but never again in company.

@dinosaursroar1 re: phones - the whole phone thing drives me nuts. Some people might have genuine in emergencies, but half the time it's not so vital you can't call the person back, surely? If you HAVE to take a phone call, excuse yourself from the table and go outside or something.
I have been at meals where everyone apart from DH and me placed their phones next to their plates and proceeded to answer texts as they came in. I am left wondering why they came out, since there's obviously more interesting people they want to be with. And it's not just the bored teens dragged along by their parents doing this, either.

Fork action is strange: 'load food onto the back of the fork with your knife. (No 'shovelling' as my mum called it)'

I can forgive a lot of these but not 'Chew with your mouth closed and do not speak with your mouth full'. I break this only when the kids are about to put their elbow in the soup

In practice though it means everyone else has to accommodate the glacially slow eaters who plod slowly on completely oblivious to the fact they’re holding everyone else up.

Indeed, they often see their ridiculous slowness as a sign of virtue.

Does everyone really back load the fork - I can’t remember the last time I saw anyone do that or the spoon thing.

the majority of the others are just basic manners but I do wonder if a whole lot of people really do eat like that (at home at least)

I do. But I am probably a lot older than you.

The only exception is peas - but I usually glance around and make sure no-one is watching before I shovel.

I jiggle my knee. Half the time I don't know I am doing it. I make a conscious effort not to, because the vibrations on the floor, if it's wood, make the table wobble.

Totally correct… I’m left handed and my bug bear is backwards knife and fork. I was taught to eat the “Normal” way and silently judge anyone who doesn’t eat
like that. Flame away people!!!

All completely normal and expected good table manners. I am attempting to teach my children all of these - the one I let slide is loading peas onto the back of a fork as it takes forever and peas fly everywhere except into their mouths.

My pet bugbear is people who cut everything up, then put the knife down, switch the fork to their right hand and then stab and shovel.

only half of the uk is thought to eat dinner at a table (we always do) and yet we are worrying about balancing peas on the back of a fork.

I think a lot of these rules (the bread roll one in particular!) are designed to be exclusionary, an excuse to look down on those that aren’t aware of them. Yes don’t eat with your mouth full or use a phone at the table but elbows on the table is fine, eating soup with a spoon in any way is fine. Taking bites from a bread roll buttered or not buttered is fine. Noticing and judging others for not following these rules is what’s rude!

well yes there are.

But my point wasn't how can you learn them or not, but rather that judging people on their manners (or asusming that they must go online and learn this set of manners) is judging their parents and is a very odd thing to do.

Very few people seem to understand how much this list is a statement of mid - upper class white British values.

personally, that is not a set of values that I aspire to.

I am more concerned that the meal table is warm, welcoming and full of laughter.

I was taught similar by my Dad, but our spoons went away from us whilst eating soup, a bread roll was broken in half with your hands not cut with a knife. Although from what I’ve seen this is not normal table manners. Kids seem to make a fist almost like they’re about to punch someone, the fork hangs down as they wave it around along with the index finger which appears to poke outwards. No knife. I’m not sure that I’ve got it exactly right, but how they manage to eat like they is beyond me. I suspect it’s something they’ve seen on TV.

OP, you are correct - those are just basic table manners. Not strict at all.

@Justintime3 In the place I was raised the keepers threw raw meat into our cage and left us to survive.

It wasn't always the strongest who won. Weaker people like me held back and befriended the winners to get the choicest scraps.

That's how I have learned to negotiate society.

Is that what you mean or is it just another arse-achingly dull post about etiquette?

Basic table manners are fine, of course.

But getting uptight about how people hold their forks and putting your cutlery down between mouthfuls? Nah.

Mostly agree.
BUT
I like eating with just a fork sometimes, and think it looks almost elegant when you eat a salad or pasta 😂However it annoys my horrid MIL no end. So i definitely wouldn't do it even more...would I?

I have a lovely book called (I think) Giggling in the Shrubbery, which is a collection of memoirs from women who attended boarding school in the 20s/30s/40s. One of the memories was that there was a rule, at dinner, that you couldn't ask anyone to pass the bread, or the salt or whatever, and so they had to resort to gazing imploringly and pointedly at first the item, then their neighbour.

Thank goodness some 'etiquette' has disappeared! At least we can now ask the selfish diners for what we need.

Exact table manners I was taught. Also, pass items to the right, and hand salt and pepper pots together.

8,9 and 10 are OTT IMO

Reminds me of the story about the Duke who when he saw a guest drink from their finger bowl did the same so the guest wouldn’t feel awkward. The kindest, most polite thing is not to judge…

I would have thought that left-handedness is a reasonable reason, if it's awkward, given that our views on being left handed have changed somewhat since these rules were first implemented. Kind of makes me think about how left-handed children were still being made to write with their right hand until surprisingly recently, to their considerable detriment.

YANBU, but I rarely see this anywhere.