This kid really is annoying but my cousin wants support. AIBU to deny it?

[AxioCheese]

My cousin has a 9 yr old son. He's sweet but really annoying. Constantly jiggling up and down, interrupting conversations and trying to join in when he can't do whatever it is.
My cousin says he is being bullied at school because other kids won't play with him and say he is annoying.

Obviously I'm not there but it doesn't sound like bullying. Just that they are normal kids who want to play with their friends and not be interrupted all the time.

My cousin is upset because I won't take her 'side' in all this.

Should I pretend I don't notice the way he is and just give her moral support? My family think I should but it feels wrong. AIBU to stick to my guns?

Also in case it is relevant he's been assessed for ADHD and hasn't got a diagnosis.

I do have a DC (slightly older) who has ASD.

I knew this would be added as a drip, and I don’t believe it for a second. There is no way this is true given the tone of your OP.

I worry that by not accepting that her DC's behaviour is annoying

That sounds more worrying, that SEN or not she's not prepared to do anything to help him fit in.

Do you know what she's been like as he was growing up? Has she enforced boundaries and discipline or has he always been given whatever he wanted, allowed to do whatever he wanted?

Yes this could be ADHD. It could also be learned behaviour from poor parenting. There are plenty of threads on MN about bratty children who are never told no, and the response is always that they will soon find themselves with no friends when they demand that everyone else does is what they want to do.

Why do you need to be right? Why stick to your guns? What are you hoping to achieve - that she agrees that her son is annoying an you get to have that victory? I don’t understand why you wouldn’t support her if you like to spend time with her.

Maybe I didn't make this clear but I love my cousins son very much. I also like him. He is a bit quirky, funny and sharp. He is also frequently very annoying, full of irrepressible energy, constantly questioning and interrupting and (it seems to me) quick to cry if he doesn't get what he wants.

My personal opinion is that denying that this is causing a problem with his relationships by claiming that he is being bullied is not the best way forward. At the moment I am staying as neutral as possible but I'm uncomfortable with it all.

That's why I posted here.
As always an encyclopaedic range of responses but some helpful insights so thank you.

I agree. However how much do you want to blame 9 year olds for not understanding why he's like this. They're not emotionally mature adults to have the ability to understand this.

I think there are ways to gently say something to your cousin without it coming across as "I find your kid really annoying and it's no wonder other kids won't play with him"- just tread very carefully. Like wondering if he is doing anything behaviourally that isn't helping him to make friends and to join in successfully. Suggest she asks his teachers this question. Wonder out loud if the things that made her try for an ADHD diagnosis are things that other children might find difficult to deal with, and discuss with her how you can both support him to make more friends and join in play successfully.

According to mumsnet every annoying kid must be SEN, they couldn’t possibility just be a little shit 🙄

Not wanting to play with someone you dislike isn’t bullying. Would you spend time with a colleague you dislike? Of course not, it’s not enjoyable, just because they’re children doesn’t mean they have to engage with others they don’t want to socially.

At the age of nine I would certainly have felt that I was being bullied by anyone telling me that I had to have as a friend a person I didn't want to be friends with.

Is it not also bullying to compel children to pretend friendship for someone they don't like? (It is also teaching them to act a lie in order to get out of trouble, and I am fairly sure that must be a bad idea.)

And surely being forced to associate unwillingly won't actually make anyone like someone they find annoying and don't want to be with. So the problem is not solved, just covered over so it can be pretended that it no longer exists.

'Support' in what way?

I would hope that, as presumably responsible adults, no one on this board would suggest or condone condemning a young child to social isolation simply because they're a bit annoying or awkward.

Yes, it gets a bit tricky when suggesting that other children be 'forced' to play with them, but quite often there's a concerted campaign to other and exclude one child in particular and that is bullying and should not be tolerated.

Even if it isn't bullying in this sense, it's not really acceptable for a child at school to be left on their own with no one to join in with. The teachers should be working to address the social/playground dynamics that are causing this, and part of this might be suggesting to your cousin's son some ways in which he could develop relationships with other children.

Sounds like your cousin needs support from the school to resolve this issue.

The little boy isn't doing anything wrong, he is how he is, but it seems he needs some help in adapting his behaviour to get more out of social situations.

Making this about taking sides won't help, school and family need to work together on this.

I have traits of ADHD and they are severe enough to be disabling in my case, even without meeting the full criteria for a diagnosis.

This is a real shame for him.

AIBU to stick to my guns?

What guns are these? The I'm right at all costs and the kid is a bit annoying so other kids are in their right to exclude him guns?

You're coming across as more than a bit of a shit, OP.

This. Just as adults don't want to spend time with certain other adults, it's not "bullying" ffs, or "exclusion". I HATE IT when people try and pull that card.

im not sure if YABU OP…all children need to learn social skills

Don't most people have sometimes to spend time socially with colleagues they might dislike? At work events/parties/lunches?

And children are at a disadvantage. If your colleagues dislike you and make it obvious, you can at least leave your job and find another one. Children can't decide not to go to school anymore because everyone is ignoring them in the playground.

The difference in a school situation is that the children have to spend time with each other, whether they like it or not.

This. Just as adults don't want to spend time with certain other adults, it's not "bullying" ffs, or "exclusion". I HATE IT when people try and pull that card.

IDK I think/like to think a lot of kids are more tolerant of kids that aren't NT these days. But I suppose that might partly depend on them having a diagnosis.

Has anyone explained to the kid how to interact with others, or is he just left to cope?

This!!
We all know one but sen gets batted about on here so much!
Mqybe Op has a point and needs to learn some boundaries.
Maybe not.
But as an adult l can chopse whp to be friends with, doesn't mean l am bullying someone who l choose not to be friends with. If they are actively being unkind to him, that isn't on, of course.

It's sad that your own child is being taught to hide their real self because their real self isn't likeable.

The child doesn't have adhd, time for his mother to teach him some social skills. The 'he can't help it it's how he is' he can help it if his mum teaches him, we can't excuse insufferable behaviour, we have to parent our children.

I do have a DC (slightly older) who has ASD

Drip Feed of the century.

Winner of the Convenient Awards.

I would actively avoid spending time with someone I find annoying or irritating, as would most adults. But according to most people on here kids should be forced to do it day after day? I don't understand that stance at all.

I get what OP is saying.
She's not saying "he's annoying therefore he deserves to be left out and bullied". She's saying that he needs support to change his behaviour so others won't want to leave him out.
If the behaviour isn't recognised and him helped to change, then it's very hard to completely help him. The school can do their best to help, but ultimately, if a child is annoying the other children, it is going to be very hard for them to make friends and to be accepted.
And often the child in question doesn't know any other way to behave, so the more they are not accepted, the more they play up to get attention. It's a vicious circle.

As a parent who has three dc who aren't the most social ones, one of my jobs is to try and get them to understand how to react in a way that doesn't ruffle feathers. It isn't always an easy business!

In order to support and help the child adapt, it helps to know the issues. Saying other children have to put up because "that's the way he is" or "he doesn't mean it like that" won't help him or them like each other more.

Sometimes support is saying things that people don't want to hear.

Just saying "he's fine as he is" will not help anyone long term.

It doesn't matter how annoying this boy is or for what reason. If he is being left out and isolated at school, then that is bullying. Just as it would be workplace bullying if done to a colleague in the workplace. Children don't need to be best buddies with this boy or invite him to their houses or parties, but the school need to make sure that he is included and supported during school hours, whatever means they use to do this. So if the school are not taking action to help your cousin's son, then she is not being unreasonable to be upset about the situation.

Children are forced by law to attend school. The least we need to do for them is make sure that school is a welcoming, supportive environment, regardless of their quirks. Too many children are failed in this respect.