This kid really is annoying but my cousin wants support. AIBU to deny it?

[AxioCheese]

My cousin has a 9 yr old son. He's sweet but really annoying. Constantly jiggling up and down, interrupting conversations and trying to join in when he can't do whatever it is.
My cousin says he is being bullied at school because other kids won't play with him and say he is annoying.

Obviously I'm not there but it doesn't sound like bullying. Just that they are normal kids who want to play with their friends and not be interrupted all the time.

My cousin is upset because I won't take her 'side' in all this.

Should I pretend I don't notice the way he is and just give her moral support? My family think I should but it feels wrong. AIBU to stick to my guns?

Also in case it is relevant he's been assessed for ADHD and hasn't got a diagnosis.

''Trying to join whever he can do what it is''. ''Interrupting conversations''.

Could this be a tail wagging the dog situation? These are also actions somebody who IS being excluded might do, to try to belong.

It isn't straight forward. The school should encourage kids to include everyone. He must also play his part. That means that he might need help to understand other people's point of view. A child I knew wanted to play football. He did not however play. He simply stood chatting with anyone passing by, didn't bother to follow the game or sometimes sat down or lay down in the middle of the pitch. He would then complain that he had been hit by the ball. Many adults explained that this was not how you behave if playing football. He would not or could not follow the rules of the game. Eventually he was told that he could not join that game and sit down in the middle of the pitch. He was encouraged to join other clubs and activities. He was unhappy as was his mum.

I do have a DC (slightly older) who has ASD. At their school kids sometimes find their behaviour annoying and they are sometimes excluded. I think calling that bullying is a stretch and, within certain parameters, my DC needs to learn to temper their behaviour in order to get on/ survive in a largely neurotypical world. My DC is learning to do this and is happy at school.

I worry that by not accepting that her DC's behaviour is annoying my cousin will do nothing to help them see how to get on in the world. The lack of ADHD diagnosis has made this worse as cousin now thinks that there is nothing wrong.

I don't want to tell my cousin how to parent and I never would but I do feel uncomfortable supporting a stance which I don't believe will help her son in the long term.

Perfectly prepared to be told that this is unreasonable as I am struggling with the various dynamics.

Do you have kids op ?

How old are you op? Just wondering as this level of annoyance might be usual in a teen but as an adult surely you want to help to make the world a better place for your relation?

He may well be annoying and maybe there is a reason but his mum needs support. How can you help them both?

Why is every child diagnosed on here? He might just be an annoying child that's nobody is fond of 🤷🏼‍♀️

I think you should give her support. Also if this kid is being ostracised then yes that is bullying.

Tbh it sounds like he needs reassessing and also a physical outlet - a sport or dance maybe.

I don't even know why you are having to ask whether you should be supporting your cousin about this 😕 The kid is 9

There is usually a reason for such behaviour though, even if its not SEN.

If he simply is just an annoying child then he would be able to take advice about not interrupting people and not jiggling and jumping around all the time. If he feels he is being bullied then he wants friends and so at 9 he would be able to control his behaviour.

If he can't control the interupting or constant movement then then that would indicate potential Sen

Maybe he is, but it's still not nice for him to be excluded from absolutely everything.

A definition of bullying is doing something unpleasant to someone several times on purpose. He's being bullied. I'm a teacher and I've seen children with additional needs of all descriptions being excluded deliberately by peers and it is absolutely bullying. I won't stand for it, and neither should anyone else.

Sometimes when ND children are forced to mask to fit in they then end up with very bad issues later in life. For some it helps them cope, for others it can cause anxiety when they are prevented from releasing energy or stims, or when they are simply told that being themselves is annoying which will impact upon their confidence etc.

It's okay to be supportive and understanding even if you find his personality annoying yourself. Parenting can be tricky, some will encourage masking, others won't - just as some children would be able to mask and others wouldn't

The bullying is unkind regardless and not nice for a child or parent whilst it's happening

I appreciate it's not nice for him to excluded, it's the instant SEN comments that irritate me, here on MN whether it's a husband or child their shifty behaviour is excused with declarations of SEN, some ppl are just not very nice.
Perhaps his mum can encourage him in how he behaves, not to interrupt for a start as it doesn't sound like she's doing much if anything.

Here is another similar situation with a child who is probably on the spectrum. Child plays with a group of others. He only likes to play one game. His friends want to play something else. They play it. He is upset as he doesn't want to play this. He feels they are unfair for not doing what he wants and as he is being left out. Teacher speaks to the whole group. They agree to play his game one lunchtime but say they dont want to have a strict timetable of when they will play it. They are happy for him to join in with the other games. He is unhappy as he wants them to play it more than once or on set days. He is not happy with the offered solution.

I don't think ca'ling it bullying is a stretch but I now understand your reasoning more.

Personally, I think neurotypical kids esp of that age group up, could be taught a lot more about inclusion. My daughter's cousin is only 7 but is excellent and always goes out of his way to include my daughter. He recognises she wants to join in and accepts when she doesn't.

My DD, 5, is autistic and really isn't at that level of being able to ''reign it in'' even when I would prefer she did so I simply supervise. I have definitely seen her being excluded though, like I was in my childhood so this is perhaps colouring my perception.

Overall, I feel more is expected of ND children to fit in and not enough done to teach NT kids that some kids are just different and to not be exclusionary. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they need to put up with unreasonable behaviour, just speaking generally.

Your comments are very ignorant.

I'm loathe to call ''SEN'' at anybody's child, but having grown up thus and having such a child, I can recognise the traits.

I also appreciate that Op has only a snapshot of cousin's behaviour so may not be fully representative and child may not be SEN. People are simply going off what the Op details.

Sounds like she doesn't know how to support him to understand social situations like turn taking in a conversation or interrupting. Kids and adults hate this and it will eventually see kid having few relationships, which would be a shame. Getting books or movies about social situations and talking to him about the situations in a hypothetical way can help. A game of, WWYD? using scanarios would give you a chance to have a conversation with him in a jokey way, 'have you ever........ (butted in on a friend's chat) for example could open up why others find it annoying, they want to finish their chat but might ask you to join in after. Google' Visual social stories' strips. You'll find loads as they are used for ASD or ADHD kids but honestly tons of kids atm have terrible social skills but are not ASD or ADHD and vice versa.

YABU!!!!!
You sound like you have the empathy of a doorknob.
Of course you should support your cousin, and a group of children excluding one child from all play and telling them they are “annoying” is horrible.

Well aren’t you a delight!

Personally I think if you would like to support your cousin then doing some research into ADHD and even possibly autism would really help enlighten you to the challenges that those with neurodivergence face.

Having a whole group of children repeatedly exclude one child is bullying, the children need to be taught about acceptance and tolerance. If they are allowed to just shun someone away for being different then they are learning that it’s ok to shun anyone away, different religion, different race? Etc why would anyone encourage that?

The damage being done to your cousins son will just keep increasing, his self esteem will be taking a massive hit and he more than likely just wants to fit in and be accepted by his peers.

At the same time it’s important to help those with neurodivergence understand social cues, not to force them to fit in and conform but to help them improve their social skills.
How on earth can a child be expected to do this if all the adults and children in their lives ignore them because they are “annoying”.

It sounds like your cousin needs support in place at school for her son. Do you know if they are providing him with social stories, small nurture groups that focus on building relationships with the other children, 1-1 time with an adult to focus on the challenges he is facing, movement breaks etc, there’s so much intervention that can be done and if he is struggling now the school should already be putting these strategies in place, he does not need a diagnosis for it.
I hope the school senco is supporting them both.

My comments aren't ignorant, I have an autistic child myself , it's the frustration that MN is a go to for armchair diagnosis, there's no info as to whether his mum has addressed his behaviour, very limited info and yet everyone jumps in with oh it's sen etc. Not very fidgety child who interrupts is autistic.

Empathy, op, isn't about agreement.

Oh gosh Jenny, that sounds really hard for you both.
It sounds like things are really difficult for you at the moment.
Have you spoken to anyone at the school?

You don't have to scream that all the kids are ducking hicks and you'll happily go smash in their faces. Just show your friend, who's worried about her child who sounds like he has SEN, some support because it's hard and isolating

All the ‘special needs’ advocates are ignoring the fact that the child has been assessed by professionals , and this is not his problem. Someone as aPP has said, need to help the child not to be ‘annoying. ‘. If he is always ‘ interrupting’ and it gets on everyone’s t…ts, your job as his relative and his mother’s job as his mother is to help him to behave in a more socially acceptable fashion, so that people like him and appreciate his good qualities.

Does he not have a Dad or any older male figure who could model a calmer interaction for him?

@HerMammy the OP stated he is being assessed for ADHD so it must be on everyones radar already that his behaviour is linked to neurodivergence.

@HerMammy nevermind I misread that bit that says he didn’t get a diagnosis!

Totally agree!
See it all the time and mostly it's not ND kids, it's just many kids, esp post covid have crap social skills, haven't had good role models, are not explicitly supported by being told about social turn taking and relationships skills. This can be supported in the family. It's not an ASN.