To ask if you work in a university have you noticed a recent change in student behaviour?

[0987ghj]

I graduated from university in 2019, and have now returned to study a different course. I've noticed a big difference in student behaviour and I wondered if it's something that university staff have also noticed or if it's just my course.

I'm hoping that this thread doesn't seem like I'm trying to slate current university students/gen Z. A few of the examples I've seen are from mature students, so I don't think it's generational/an age thing.

There's a lot of talking now during lectures, people just talking loudly whilst the lecturer is talking (not even whispering). It's pretty brazen and full on conversations, not just a quick question or comment, and really distracting. People are often late quite a lot, there's routinely a few students who are 40+ minutes late to a 2-hour lecture. I know there are some reasons people may be late such as childcare issues, or traffic or illnesses like IBS that make it hard to leave the house in the mornings so that might just be why, but it's a lot more lateness than I ever saw in my degree before. There would be the occasional person 5-10 minutes late, but not 40+ minutes.

People also start packing up and starting to leave before the lecturer has even finished talking. Our lectures always finish slightly early to allow time to walk to other lectures so there's not really any need for it. I don't remember this happening before, unless it was because the lecture had ran over and even then people would quietly/subtly pack up.

I work on a funded PG diploma- over the past few years the change has been shocking. Not just the not paying attention in lectures, turning up late etc but not taking any responsibility for learning. Our students are not paying for their course, but some still expect the staff to work harder than them, ignore what we say and then wonder why they don't pass the coursework. It used to be one or two a cohort, now I'd say 50% have this attitude.
That said, it's not all the students. I love my job and love sharing my knowledge and experience, but I draw the line at spoon feeding adults information they need to do a job they have chosen to do!

I feel like some current cohorts have been disempowered about how to study. There are a lot less of them taking notes (“it’s all online” mentality).
Having to teach really basic skills and give out really basic instructions.
Worryingly, many seem to have lost the ability/ confidence to speak up and contribute. Even in a very small group situation.
Definitely huge huge increases in mental health needs (although some really do need to learn to live with a few anxious feelings without claiming they can’t do an assignment because they “have anxiety”).
Total disbelief and shock when they fail something and can’t just do it again and again.
Total inability to construct an email with a beginning, clearly expressed middle, and an end. They send you 6 in a row, as if it’s messenger/ WhatsApp.

Resilience levels and skills seem to have dropped significantly in the last few years.

I'm doing a degree that's taught exclusively online, which suits me as I live overseas. My biggest annoyance is when people don't put their camera or microphone on in break out rooms, so two people will be carrying the discussion whilst six are silent. I think it's rude but when another student brought it up they were told by one faceless person they were too anxious to participate. It's strange

My youngest is in 1st term and her timetable has so many clashes, which i think is pretty disrespectful to the students

There is now an attitude from the students that they are paying for (buying) their degree. The look of shock when you explain to them that no, they're paying for the opportunity to earn themselves a degree. And at nearly £30,000 for the privilege they have to be committed. Many of them aren't and expect that they will be handed their degree at the end even though they've been to no lectures or handed in any work.

The creation of the Office for Students has only given them more ammunition. The aim of the OfS, as at the top of their website, We want every student to have a fulfilling experience of higher education that enriches their lives and careers. I haven't had a lot to do with them, but they seem to interpret their brief as meaning the student is right and the institution is in the wrong. Whatever the student is complaining about.

Tony Blair started it with his 50% of school leavers getting a degree, and it's gone downhill from there.

Total inability to construct an email with a beginning, clearly expressed middle, and an end. They send you 6 in a row, as if it’s messenger/ WhatsApp.

And are not satisfied with a reply that says the information they want is available on the VLE. They demand that you repeat it just for them.

I need to get off this thread...

does anyone have examples of what its like at oxbridge ?

Yes 100%. Huge decline in attendance. Before covid almost everyone would turn up for every session. Now it seems they look at the timetable, then only turn up if they think it’ll be interesting. For compulsory sessions where there’s leeway built in (eg. Can miss three sessions a term before intervention) that was designed in case of illness, students take it that they can slack off the last three sessions without getting in trouble. (And lots seem to disregard the compulsory label completely).
Massive increase in lateness. The same 30% of students turning up 5 minutes late. Ambling in with fresh coffee in hand. They are not late because of an emergency. They are late because they don’t care and don’t respect the teaching staff.
A huge problem we’re having is students missing important sessions for mental health reasons. I totally understand and agree that mental health should be prioritised over academics. But we are a vocational degree, these sessions are designed for students to have a safe space to practice daunting skills before they have to do them for real in the workplace. Before covid these sessions (compulsory) had almost 100% attendance. Now down to 50%.
The type of students doing this degree are generally well off. The local area is very cheap. It is extremely possible to live here on the current loans, and most have a generous donation from mum and dad too. Plus there are lots of grants available for those in need. I don’t think the lack of attendance in this instance is due to students having to work. (Although I agree the maintenance loan system needs big reform).
I think since covid students have become more entitled, lazier and have lost social skills. There is also a huge increase in mental health problems likely due to the effects of the pandemic compounded with long waiting lists for treatment. I also think the rise of tiktok and other short form content platforms has massively reduced attention span. At our institution we are moving away from lectures to more engaging mediums.
Generally though I think a lot of students are very rude and entitled and need a bit of a telling off. One of our lecturers used to shout at people who came in late (great for serial offenders, not so great for people with genuine reasons), and it worked amazingly - everyone showed up on time (Even the 5 minutes past gang)! But he’s now been told that’s not allowed…

A lot of students will be using their phones and tablets to engage with the lecture. Making notes, digital flash cards, looking at slides, looking up related concepts, interacting with online Q&A responses.

There does appear to be an apathy amongst students though, even on courses that require huge effort and commitment just to get through the door. Its surprising to see.

My son is at uni and one of the reasons he’s enjoying it more than school/college is because there’s very little of what you describe. No talking and disruption. Students seem like they want to be there, they’re interested. He was dreading group work if it was like school/college but has been pleasantly surprise that everyone turns up on time and does their share. Maybe it’s the uni or the course?

Very interesting thread.

I recognise some of the issues carrying forward into the workplace especially entitlement. We are experiencing this with some junior assistants.

Thankfully I teach apprentices in a university and they have a completely different attitude. They engage, arrive promptly and are eager to learn. The traditional students have become both entitled and blasé about their education unfortunately.

When I did my masters at 40 alongside 20 somethings who'd just graduated I was astonished at the chat and phone fiddling in lectures. This was 2012. I'm sure it's worse now.

We are seeing loads more students on action plans for anxiety, etc. they need to be came to take time out and sit in a quiet space. Really not practical when you have patients to look after and it's busy.

Students have been paying for their degrees for years now, so that’s not a recent change. There was a bit of a blip during COVID in that they were more needy and more negative - more anxious, I guess, but it seems to have returned to normal. I teach a group of undergrads and a group of postgrads and so far they’ve been brilliant- really engaged. 95% are showing up on time, little chatting, plenty wanting to respond to questions, little phone use, attendance continues to be very high, dissertation students are engaged and proactive, so all in all I’ve really been enjoying this year.

Ds says their lectures start 15 to 20 minutes late each time to allow for latecomers!

He has to travel in and manages to attend on time, but a certain group of students that live on campus seem to be consistently and significantly late.

I only found this out when he had transport issues during the recent storm and told me there was no need to worry that he was going to arrive late, as the lecture wouldn’t have started anyway.

We wouldn’t have dared to roll into lectures late, let alone chat or eat during them.

I think some people are just unique learners. A student turned up late (over 1 hour) with a very young (weeks old) baby earlier this month (start of the academic year) with a combination buggy the size of a king size bed. The lecturer (relative) stopped mid stride. The student at a guess is mid 30's. The student sat down and started attending to the baby.
What can you say to that?

I'm currently in my final year of my masters (2 year full time course) and have not noticed any of this.

I'm afraid that it is not all one way. All I hear about from students of my acquaintance are striking lecturers, many recorded instead of live lectures, huge seminar groups, low 'face time', effectively unsupervised dissertations, exams not being marked and poor uni admin. When lecturers turn up, I hear complaints that they are disengaged and only interested in their own research not teaching and that they exhibit contempt of the students. This is at three separate well regarded Russell Group universities. Added to all this is the higher cost of living and often very poor accommodation. I'm very sorry for these kids. Their student experience is vastly inferior to mine in the late80s/ early 90s and it costs so much more.

My daughter started university this year, she has been gob smacked about how rude some of the students in her lectures are, finds it very upsetting.
I think it’s because the lectures are all recorded and posted on line afterwards, they have to show up because their attendance is recorded, but they can catch up again later on line. Not an excuse for rude behaviour though.

I was at uni on the same course before and after the whole 2 year Covid lockdown shebang. The difference is like night and day. I'm pretty sure it's because students have become used to 100% online lectures, and basically everything online.

In the past, you had to hang on to every word the lecturer said, and also be on your best behaviour. Now you get used to being able to go back to and replay any missed bits, and also sometimes forget the lecturer can "see" you in real life.

I'm someone who is really self conscious about being polite but even I sometimes find it hard to get used to physical mode again. It's a bit like going back to real life meetings in the office after being on Teams or Zoom with your camera off for a year, only a much much larger scale so you feel even more invisible / under the radar to the speaker.

Btw, I strongly disagree with the posts on here about students being entitled due to $ / fees. OP herself says she's only comparing to 2019!

I am absolutely not defending poor behaviour by students or trying to derail the thread but perhaps the Uni or lecturer themselves should consider setting the tone from the outset? No eating in lectures, lateness tolerated occasionally but enter quietly and sit at the back. If flouted then ask them to leave?

My daughter is at Uni and tbh she didn’t get half of her work marked last year due to strikes, including some of her end of year exams. Lectures, seminars etc are cancelled or moved all over the place. She is at a well established Uni with a popular course and hasn’t been told when their reading week is, her exam timetable etc. It’s been frustrating and chaotic. Perhaps some of the students are faced with the same and are responding in kind?

I'm at a top 3 Russell Group and this is very true too. The strikes have constant since 2018.

I genuinely don't mind in the least. I've been on my course for ages due to personal circumstances, so I don't really care. Whereas some of my peers are really angry about the fees being wasted – constantly cancelled classes, radio silence and confusion, deferred marking, vanishing assessments, etc.

But it does lend to the sense that nobody really cares about what is going on and what you do as a student.

You've described on a larger scale what I see some of my sixth form students behave like.