about adult christmas presents?

[latetothefisting]

Wider family is divided between those who don't want to buy for adults this year, and those who want to keep buying for everyone (in total ten adults and 5 kids).

Those who don't want to have various reasons - they get stressed out buying presents/don't like receiving/there is literally nothing they want/are trying to save money/have been having a clear out so don't want more stuff/don't like 'tat' or just don't see the point of 'I'll buy you a bottle of wine you don't really want or need and then you'll give me a box of chocolates I'm not particularly keen on and could just buy myself." One person who is single says it's not fair they are expected to buy for e.g. a couple and 2 kids yet only ever get 1 present (of the same amount as they'd spent per person rather than for all 4) back.

The non-buyers are happy to continue buying for children.

Those who want to keep buying think it's tight not to when everyone in the family can technically afford to, and think gift exchange is a key part of Christmas and it would be miserable without it and would feel like just a random day with nothing special to distinguish it from any other. They say they'd feel embarrassed if someone asked them what they are getting their brother for Christmas and they answer 'nothing.' They are annoyed that they've suggested options like limiting presents to a tenner each but the non-buyers don't want to do that either (on the basis you can't get anything decent for that much so it's just more tat, and still ends up as £100 they'd rather save/spend on something else).

Last year we tried a secret santa with £100 budget which some people found an ok compromise but others disliked - non-buyers because it didn't solve any of the reasons they don't like buying, buyers because they still want to buy for everyone!

Anyone else facing the same issue and have any magical compromises? It's all getting a bit arsey on the family whatsapp group now and not exactly spreading Christmas cheer!

We stopped doing adult presents in 2017. We make the effort to do Christmas days out/markets/theatre/light shows etc in December instead. There's so many people treating Christmas as if it's one day, when it's actually a season and not enjoying anything about it.

Honestly OP, I have some sympathy for the adults that want to keep buying for everyone, even though I know on mumsnet I appear to be in the minority! I think what people need to understand is that gift giving and receiving is genuinely some people’s love language and it is what makes them feel loved, valued and appreciated by family.

@Britneyfan I think there is definitely something in this, thank you for this insight. I hadn't really understood before that other people might not see it that way: that to me it is an expression of love and about the thought that goes into it, picking things that someone will love, and having them make that effort for you. And the excitement of surprises. I think I overcompensate with my children, due to a very unpleasant childhood with no love and in which I was actually given coal in a stocking one year while siblings received presents, so I'm sure that has had an influence on it being an expression of love for me and wanting to make my children's childhood the opposite of mine. Obviously I express love in other ways also! But I think this is why I find the idea even of adults not exchanging presents so different, because it reminds me of that childhood experience. It's also why I hate the idea of Father Christmas having a "naughty list" or the whole "elf on the shelf thing" and children being threatened with no presents if they don't/ can't behave how adults want them to.

The ones that want to buy, buy for each other, and not the non buyers. Simples. And if they are embarrassed about telling people they are buying nothing for their brother (ridiculous, but here we are), then just say a bottle of wine or something. I doubt the asker will turn up at the brothers house demanding to see it.

Because some of us actively don’t WANT gifts. We don’t want tat, and will feel awkward about being given stuff without giving something back, even if the gift giver insists that that is OK. I think it’s better to get gift-giving rules clear, otherwise it can create some really awkward and embarrassing situations.

This, so much!

I’m afraid I’ve been given a lot of unwanted stuff by people who I know love gift-giving and really pride themselves on supposedly being able to choose the perfect gift. It is very hard to get it exactly right. It’s also a lot of hard work, which is why some of us don’t like the feeling of being obliged to go through this wretched “gift guessing” process for a dozen people.

I’m also someone who hates clutter, so I actively don’t want other people buying me stuff.

We all buy for each other, but in this case why don't those who want to buy just buy for those who feel the same way? That seems the easiest solution. There aren't many kids in our family and I don't have any, but if I did I would feel uncomfortable with people buying for my children and getting nothing for themselves.

Each to their own, but I personally find it baffling when a family of adults spend X amount of money (& time) getting things for each other that they could just buy themselves at any point in the year. Plus additional tat no one wants, but was fun for the novelty factor (for 30 seconds).

Christmas is about spending time together. Many can ill afford to buy for all, and there is a stress factor cost as well (not talking about those who delight in buying stuff in the January sales and cluttering up space for a year!)

I also realise I get looked at like a Scrooge for not gift giving as many see it as a tradition (& feel sorry for me - please don’t!) They can’t understand how I can enjoy Christmas without it and think there is no point. That’s fine - I feel the same way reversed.

I'm still slogging through smellies i don't really like, bought up to 5 years ago. So looking forward to finishing them. High risk still that my one SIL who ignores the no presents thing will give some more, and this time I will give them straight to a refuge.

We do a secret Santa but the app we use lets us give ideas on what we want anonymously. It saves any disappointment.

It’s really scraping the bottom of the conversational barrel to ask someone what they’ve bought their brother for Christmas, isn’t it? The only person I can imagine asking me that is my other brother, and I wouldn’t be in the slightest bit embarrassed to say “nothing”.

Because nobody really wants to do secret santa so it doesn't please either party. Some of the non buyers have said they would prefer not to get anything but would do secret santa as a compromise - basically for the reasons people have said-less stress because you're only buying for 1 person and can spend more so at least get something decent rather than 10x£10 of small stuff.

The buyers don't want to do it because the whole point is they want to get presents for EVERYBODY and receive lots of presents from EVERYBODY.

For those who have queried the "I'd be embarrassed if I had to tell my friend I didn't buy my brother anything" I completely agree this is a ridiculous argument. I actually toned it down, it was followed by "imagine if you died next year and I had to live the rest of my life knowing I hadn't got you a present for your last Christmas on earth."
I mean how do you respond to that!

I assume you can probably tell which side of the divide I'm on 😁but I do fully understand the "gift giving" = their love language argument. My issue is:
a) they unfortunately wouldn't be impressed by just giving and still expect to receive

b) Like the previous poster who pointed out most people aren't as good as giving as they think -for something thats apparently their preferred method of demonstrating love they historically haven't given particularly great presents

C) surely if you love someone that much you'll prioritise THEIR happiness over your preference i.e. if people actively hate receiving gifts you don't give them even though you'd like to. There are surely enough people who would appreciate presents to fulfil your gift giving love language needs!

I'm entirely on the 'don't buy' side.

If you don't want to participate but are forced into it be people who supposedly are demonstrating their love for you by ignoring your wishes then buy them something very cheap with no thought whatsoever.

I suspect next year they will decide not to buy stuff.

How many situations do people allow others to dictate how they spend their money? Very few. And in return they get things that they don't want.

I really don't see why gift giving should be seen as the default, 'positive' situation.

Sorry, I just realised how snarky my comment must've come across. I didn't mean to be rude 🙈 I really shouldn't be allowed anywhere near my phone when half asleep.

Hope you all come to a suitable arrangement! I do feel like guilting someone into buying gifts sort of defeats the purpose - surely the gift has to also actually mean something for it to properly count. Family, eh?!

Most family traditions/ occasions tend to cost money to some extent, often a lot more than Christmas! Travelling to visit relatives, hosting and catering for relatives, family meals out at various points in the year, family holidays, family weddings, family days out/ trips, anniversaries, family birthdays... this specific objection to it being unreasonable to engage in one particular normal tradition just because it costs money - while presumably still being fine with all the other normal traditions that cost money - seems odd. Why is this one particularly objectionable? (Obviously talking here about the people who have stated they don't want to do it purely because of the money involved, not the other reasons other people have stated). Or do the posters who hate it because of the cost also not want to engage in any other family activity that costs money? And do they also not buy presents for their partners/ children/ other family at birthdays?

We are talking in this thread about people that want to give gifts thinking that their way is the 'right' way and not wanting to stop despite people saying they don't want to.

That's a little different to being invited to a family wedding or paying to travel to see someone you love! It's also different to birthdays, where you are buying for one person because it's their special day. (Although I'm happy to have a complete no fuss birthday too. As an aside to this, we see on here every year people unhappy with the gifts they have been given. It would be so much better for them to just spend their own money on themselves instead of others, that way they will get what they want!) Christmas is built on commercialism and we are being sold the idea that we should give to everyone and expect everyone to give to us, despite the fact that a) most of us have enough stuff b) lots of people can't afford it and c) environmentally it's a complete waste.

Massive amounts of money is put into 'selling ' Christmas to make us buy. This is so that companies and corporations can make even more massive amounts of money from us.

The sooner people wake up to that, honestly, the better.

This is the first year my family are stopping presents for adults the decision was made about a month ago and honestly, the relief! I have three children, my brother and sisters also have children albeit only 3 are still under the age of 18. I also used to buy for 12 adults. The cost/time was insane and I genuinely felt I was buying for the sake of it. None of them needed anything I bought. I now have the extra time/money to spend on my little family which will be absolutely amazing (theyre 6,4 and 1). I obviously will receive nothing personally except maybe from my DH but I am absolutely fine with that, I don't need it, it's all about the kids 🤷🏼 turned out my wider family all felt the same, so should've been done years ago

nah, really don't rate this as an argument, sorry. In terms of travelling/hosting we all live fairly close so don't need to travel for hours or stay overnight, and tend to all contribute. As a family we aren't huge drinkers/fans of expensive fancy food so Christmas dinner is pretty affordable per head and shared out equally. Plus everyone gets something useful and appreciated out of it = a nice meal!

Of your other examples half were just other types of gifts, so I would imagine most people who don't want to receive gifts at Christmas also wouldn't want them for birthdays or anniversaries. Although at least then you are only buying 1 gift at a time for 1 person so it's both more affordable than buying for multitudes all at the same time and can get a more personalised/thoughtful gift.

Of the other stuff - family holidays, days out etc I don't think it's comparable - for one most of these things are entirely optional and it's usually not expected the whole family attend everything (we don't tend to turn up en masse all grandparents, siblings, partners, etc to the local softplay!) two, costs incurred for a day out are usually FOR something, e.g. entry to a theme park, buying an icecream, staying in a hotel etc. So you're aware up front of what you'll be getting in exchange for your money and can make the decision whether to buy it or not, rather than being surprised with a random thing you don't want. And three, usually people just pay for themselves (and kids if they have them) on holidays/trips, there's no weird expectation that just because we're at the beach I MUST buy my sister an icecream even if she doesn't want one, and then in return she MUST buy me a bucket and spade of approximately equal value to the icecream! And we should both be happy and grateful that we love each other enough to buy these things neither of us actually wanted and if we did want could have just bought ourselves.

@JustALittlePotatooo I honestly didn't consider your comment to be sarky at all, it's a good suggestion which I'd be happy with as a compromise, unfortunately most of the rest of them don't agree!

All buy for children.

Secret Santa for the adults who want to buy for adults, with wishlists if need be.

Don't assume people do have the money.

nah, really don't rate this as an argument, sorry.

No need to be rude. It wasn't an "argument", I was asking questions so I could try to understand the viewpoint better. I understand the people who say they find it stressful to think of ideas, or who have everything they want and have unthoughtful family who buy them "tat" anyway. My question was purely about the posts saying there was no other situation where they felt obliged to spend their money on family things so they resented Christmas presents for that reason, so I was interested how that works for other family occassions: weddings, birthdays, anniversaries etc., and why those are seen differently.

And thank you for your explanation of why you think that is different @latetothefisting

There's not going to be an agreement that everyone is happy with. You're right that secret Santa doesn't suit anyone. I think it's reasonable to ask those keen on presents to just give and receive 4 or 5 rather than 10. It's not as good for them as all 90 presents being given between adults (is that right? 10 people giving 9 presents each. Guess it might be a lot less if couples team up). However it's an awful lot better for them than doing secret Santa, and all they lose out on is giving presents to people who don't want them and receiving gifts that people would rather not be buying.

If I want to buy people gifts I'd buy them gifts. Unless they'd asked me not to, in which case I wouldn't. If I can't buy gifts, or don't want to, I don't. It's not that difficult.

I love choosing gifts, and I am genuinely good at it (honest!) and it does make me sad that the people I know and love are the complete opposite. I’m estranged from my parents and my remaining family and friends don’t send gifts or cards for any occasion, but expect any kids they have to be sent gifts. I do do that and generally put a lot of thought into it - sustainable toys that are beautiful and will last, books I loved at the same age, etc. It just makes me a bit sad that I don’t get anything in return.

I know it’s just meaningless consumerism and not everybody has to have the same love languages, Christmas is stressful etc. but I have to admit that being single and childless at this time of year does tend to make you feel even more forgotten than normal!

That must be even more horrible than being a lone parent @fitzwilliamdarcy , if you receive no present from anybody. You'd think in that situation people would make an effort to show you they care and make you feel included. It seems very thoughtless that people would exchange gifts with partners only if they have single adults in the family. As @DappledThings said above, if they don't give presents even to partners then maybe that would be ok, but if they give things to their partners and children and not you, yet expect presents from you for their children, that is horrible.

I find all of this "what's the point?" stuff a very transactional way of looking at it, rather than focusing on the thought that goes into a present and the love it shows for somebody that you made that effort for them. I am surprised that so many of the responses are so negative about present giving when it is clearly still the norm in most families, but maybe the nature of the thread means that it has attracted mainly people who don't like that particular Christmas tradition so the thread may not be representative of the general population. 🤷🏻‍♀️